Yeah, but this episode imo needed Worf crossing over and actually helping the essentialists. Just like "The Sword of Kahless" needed Worf to try killing Kor.
Let He Who is Without Sin...
- Thread starter urbandk
- Start date
What really disappointed me is that group Worf joins was just so lame. They were like a stereotype of closed-minded, overbearing, preachy groups and I'd expect Worf to be smart and individualistic enough to know he's above letting such jerks manipulate him. As has been stated before, his sense of honor should have been enough to ensure that. I can't believe the same Worf who defiantly (and awesomely) declared to Locutus "I like my SPECIES the way it is would basically let some silly cult convince him to disrupt Starfleet by doing their will.
Fullerton would probably agree, though.
The problem of the Essentialists is also that they're just a bunch of civilians. Why would worf even go to them to execute his "rain" plan? So that Fullerton can give a speech?
Why not play around with the idea that Risa might actually be shut down due to safety and energy reasons in the face of a war? And Fullerton and gang are a committee to decide whether it should be closed.
Or something.
The cult thing didn't really work out.
I'd have been cool with Worf simply agreeing with their means and ends--that makes him a dick and it's easy enough to draw the necessary conflict out of his dickish social and political opinions. But having him actively participate paints him in a very "dishonorable" light, considering he swore an oath to protect the Federation, not flood it.
Remember, Worf built the uplink to simply cause heavy rain on Risa. No active threat, he just basically wanted to make people leave the "pleasure planet" in droves. It was Fullerton who chose to mess with the seismic regulators. At that moment, he went from annoyance to terrorism, and thus became no different from the Borg or Jem'Hadar. I think that even without the conversation with Jadzia, Worf would have put a stop to his antics.
I hate the episode but wouldn’t call it low brow. If anything, it’s a failed attempt at being higher brow.
Two main reasons I hate it. First, it’s one of those episodes whose main conflict is driven by Worf acting like a petty intolerant child. Second, the villains motives make no sense.
Ending a relationship can be hell. Looks like the Bajorans have the right idea...far as I'm concerned, more cultures should have such a dignified, logical method of breaking up. It would cut down on the heartbreak, wouldn't it?
Really? I thought they made perfect sense. The Federation is in the midst of a long, drawn-out war with the Dominion, and yet they still have soft mealymouthed pleasure planets like Risa? How can they afford to do that?
Note that I don't agree with Fullerton and his ilk, I just understand their point.
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He connected cultural strength to never getting any kind of recreation ever. Risa was just the tip of the iceberg for him, his vision for the entire human race was to sit around working all the time and this would magically increase their military strength.
Basically:
Step 1. Prevent any Federation member from having any enjoyment and make every part of life more simple and labor intensive.
Step 2. ?
Step 3. Win war.
What sane person could think soldiers fight better with less stress relief when on leave?
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Just a heads up that one of our rules here is to not resurrect a thread if it has been dormant for over a year. You may not have noticed but the last reply before yours was 12 years ago! You can always start a new thread and link back to any relevant posts in the old thread if you want to continue the conversation.
Having said that, I tend to give all new members a free pass on their first thread resurrection, and since other members have chimed in since your post I see no harm in leaving this thread open. Please just make sure to start a new thread in the future when you stumble upon an old thread like this.
Thanks, and Happy posting!
There are good and bad kinds of stress relief.
Kicking back with a cold beer and a good book...THAT's a good kind.
Wallowing in mushy decadence 24/7...not so much.
Look, I hate to quote Fullerton again...but look at how easy it was for his motley bunch to surprise the Risans. And if his group could pull that off, imagine how, say, the Dominion could manage...
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Pffft. What is that even supposed to mean? Of course they still have Risa; it exists,and its not gonna poof out of existence just because there's now a war. What were they supposed to do with it in your opinion? Eject it from the Federation? Wrap it up and put it in the closet?
Or are you saying Risa should be remodelled completely into fuelling the war effort? Were they supposed to raze the resorts and carefully landscaped scenery and plaster it over with boot camps and ammunition manufactures?
That would be silly. I think its clear from the shows has so many planets that even in a case like the Dominion war not all of those planets have to completely transition into a war economy. Nor would such a complete switch be practical depending on where the planet is located or what the already existing infra structure of the planet looks like. The native Risian culture also has to be respected.
The most I could imagine is closing down some resorts and have them function as refugee camps for civilians from planets under attack or occupation, and for all we know the Federation had special planets for that.
Plus again, entertainment is important during war time. Even if you look at diaries of civilians from World War II you see that people still went to the movies, theatres and even on holidays for several years during the war. And that's what Risa is, a holiday resort.
And who are you to decide that for everyone? Federation personnel went to Risa on shore leave, it's not like they took permanent residence there and a couple days of mindless entertainment don't hurt anybody.
By that logic soldiers in the real world should be forbidden from visiting places like Hawaii or Greece.
And again, I'm not disputing any of this. I'll be the first to admit that there are always healthy forms of diversion. I'm just not entirely convinced that Risa is one of these forms.
I mean, in the midst of World War II (to quote but one example), you wouldn't think it healthy for soldiers to spend their downtime in a constant drug-induced haze, would you?
It can be argued that in wartime, there ARE no holidays.
I'm not deciding. Common sense is.
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You think the Dominion is going to use one of their precious founders in the Alpha Quadrant in order to make it rain on everybody's vacations? Not spy on the inner councils of the Federation or Klingons or other great powers?
I'm not deciding. Common sense is.
"Common sense" seems oddly puritanical.
I think you have a different idea of what Risa is... and I'm not sure where it comes from. In the episodes set there I didn't see any people rolling around in the grass in some sort of "drug-induced haze", I saw a up-scale vacation resort like one you might find on the Bahamas or the Seychelles.
The only thing that is different is that the Risians like to have sex with their guests, and that's something that frequently shows up in Star Trek.
Like what actions taken by the DS9 characters in the Risa episode indicate them descending into a "drug-induzed haze"?
To me it all looked like perfectly benign and sensible R&R, or at least attempts at it.
Except that there often are.
I'm not deciding. Common sense is.
So "common sense" forbids a holiday resort but advocates ingestion of a mind altering substance: Alcohol. Or if we assume that the Risians use some sort of drug to enhance their stay. What would make alcohol better than whatever the Risian equivalent of weed is?
See everything can be spun in a negative direction.
Apparently locking everyone into a library that has a two drink minimum.
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I'm down with that.
We'll remember not to let you near the weather machine.
I hate that episode primarily because Worf joined a terrorist group because he didn't like people relaxing. He should have been court martialed. I know Star Trek, and DS9, has characters do plenty of stupid things that should get them court martialed, but a hatred for partying has got to be one of the most absurd.
I think the episode was a lot of fun just because I've been on many vacations where people try to make me "have fun" and ignore every statement of mine that I was perfectly content with what I was already doing.
Jadzia in particular ignored every one of Worf's requests and took him to a place he didn't like with people he doesn't like (two of which are having breakup sex). That too is an experience we all know if you've been forced on vacation with not especially close family (or close family).
The whole Essentialists thing was actually unnecessary and didn't fit Worf's personality. I could totally see Worf attending their rally but he'd have arrested them (no authority on RIsa or not) the moment they brought even unloaded phasers into someone's house.
In other words, I actually enjoy it as a parody of vacations and how they can very often be hell in paradise.
Jadzia in particular ignored every one of Worf's requests and took him to a place he didn't like with people he doesn't like (two of which are having breakup sex). That too is an experience we all know if you've been forced on vacation with not especially close family (or close family).
The whole Essentialists thing was actually unnecessary and didn't fit Worf's personality. I could totally see Worf attending their rally but he'd have arrested them (no authority on RIsa or not) the moment they brought even unloaded phasers into someone's house.
In other words, I actually enjoy it as a parody of vacations and how they can very often be hell in paradise.
