Did Geordie marry a REAL girl?

[Guy Gardener]

This is why if I were going to construct a past for Future Geordi, I'd have went with Sonya Gomez. She might just have been the only woman he ever interacted with personally that it didn't seem creepy...Scratch that... He was actually pretty cool with Ro Laren by the end of The Next Phase too. Now that could've been an interesting shipping imho.

She's a kook.

Geordi was a terrorist?

As a good person Geordi will do the work on a friendship, even a long distance friendship, even if that means sending and receiving gigs of correspondence from Romulus once a month.

TNG The Enemy.

He made a really big deal about that Romulan being a new friend when they were marooned on that storm world waiting to die.

Geordi is on a watch-list.

 

[Oddish]

Oh yeah, & it's also not too cool to let a subordinate (Tyler from Phantasms) have a crush on you & just let it keep going on, because you don't have any social skills with women. It's not a good look no matter what the circumstances.

Maybe, but I doubt Data was the right person to handle it. And Geordi was too busy trying to get the Enterprise to its destination in time to worry about it himself.

Unless Ens. Tyler returns in a later episode, still crushing on him, I'd say we could give Geordi the benefit of the doubt on that one.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Marrying his holo program would be the most Geordi thing possible.

 

[dupersuper]

What are our thoughts on Aquiel? Both as an option for the alternate future wife and on the creep scale?

 

[Laughing Dragon]

He married Leah and I would have preferred if he were to marry it had been Aquiel (sp?). I am not sure if I am spelling it right. If you mean you felt he had no masculinity in his relationships decked out in nothing but Hawaiian clothes and day dreaming on the holodeck then I guess i can see it but he can get pretty assertive like when he told Q off when he became human or when he defied orders to help his lost mother. I used to read JLA when Guy was a member. Uh, not sure if this is a joke? Not that he didn't have his problems...

I think that people started rumors that he was gay actually. Not talking about the slash either.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Well he married *A* Leah.

In an alternate timeline.

He could have married a emancipated hologram Leah.

Or some lady named Leah in a coincidence. Unlikely as that may be.

 

[Oddish]

A semi related question, regarding holograms: if you have sex with one... are you still a virgin?

 

[Skipper]

A semi related question, regarding holograms: if you have sex with one... are you still a virgin?

Only if it (s/he?) is a sentient one.

 

[Orphalesion]

Only if it (s/he?) is a sentient one.

But if the Hologram is sapient, then I'd say it counts as losing your virginity.
If the hologram isn't then it's basically masturbation.

 

[jackoverfull]

I’m afraid that the concept of virginity is mostly a cultural one anyway.

 

[Oddish]

I’m afraid that the concept of virginity is mostly a cultural one anyway.

That is true. Especially where guys are concerned. If you placed two adult males side by side, one "experienced" and one not, it would be humanly impossible to tell the difference.

 

[TommyR01D]

Geordie always came off as creepy to me.

Maybe its because he had zero toxic masculinity, it seemed like he had zero masculinity.

I'm struggling to get my head around this: You believe in the concept of "toxic masculinity", but you view it as a positive trait? Its absence, rather than presence, is what makes a man creepy to you?

Except Enterprise. Instead, there would be a dimly lit scene on the Holodeck with you and another underwear-clad character smearing unidentified goop all over each other in a quasi-erotic manner.

Don't forget the dog!

The word is incel.

I can totally see all the women on Voyager holding a draft for the available men.

How many bad dates can Harry have, before he's blacklisted?

You think that Janeway and Kim are both involuntary celibates, even after a list of people with whom they were in long-term relationships before Caretaker as well as brief swings after. That's before we get onto the many times each turned down offers of intimacy.

Unfortunately, the writers of Voyager never provided an accurate crew manifest, so we don't know what the gender ratio was.

There used to be a website that kept track of the crew.

Gone now.

But there was like only 30ish unnamed crew out of 150.

From Blood Fever:


73 out of 148 (the crew complement a few episodes later. They started with 141, but added seven + more because of losses... *shrugs* more births than shown, I guess...) makes a gender ratio of about 50/50. Of course, there may be other genders involved, but it appears to be majority human ship, so I reckon the number is close to even.

Known (and presumed) males on Voyager in 2373 (the "73 of '73"):
* Andrews, Arkinson, Ashmore, Ayala, Walter Baxter, Pablo Baytart, Alan Bernard, David Bernard, Rick Berman, Ken Biller,
* Bob Blackman, Jerry Bono, Boylan, Brannon Braga, Freddy Bristow, Doug Bronowski, Dick Brownfield, Joe Carey, Carlson, Chakotay
* William Chapman, Ed Charnock, Jr., Jay Chattaway, Chell, Joe Chess, John Chichester, Ian Christenberry, Richard Chronister, Art Codron, Tom Conley
* Culhane, Dan Curry, Dick D'Angelo, Kenneth Dalby, Bob De La Garza, Doug Dean, Dell, Michael DeMeritt, Jon Djanrelian, Doyle
* Emmanuel, Fitzpatrick, Jerry Fleck, Frank, Gennaro, Cosmo Genovese, Gerron, Patrick Gibson, Grimes, Hargrove
* Mortimer Harren, Henard, Phil Jacobson, Richard James, Jarvin, Ralph Johnson, Harry Kim, Timothy Lang, Larson, Peter Lauritson
* David Livingston, Dennis Madalone, Jim Magdaleno, Mannus, Martin, MacAlister, Dennis McCarthy, William McKenzie, Scott McKnight, McMinn
* James Mees, Mendez, Mitchell

... plus...
* Molina, Tom Moore, Mulchaey, Murphy 1 (Michael Beebe), Murphy 2 (Shepard Ross), John Nesterowicz, Kashimura Nozawa
* O'Donnell, David Orlando, Tom Paris, Michael Parsons, Parsons, Bill Peets, Michael Piller, Jerry Platt, Charlie Quizzlink, Pierre Rahn
* Abraham Rawski, Tony Reynolds, Keith Rockefeller, Rollins, George Rosa, David Rossi, Marvin Rush, Russell, Alan Sims, Brian Sofin
* David Stipes, Michael Stradling, Strickler, Rick Sternbach, Mark Stimson, Ron Surma, Tabor, Angelo Tassoni, William Telfer, Thompson
* Bill Thoms, Jim Thorpe, Tuvok, Vorik, Brad Yacobian, Yosa

...for a total of about 116 males (these are all survivors of Caretaker, btw). Some of them are probably dead, but 43 of them? And the crew complement doesn't seem to fluctuate wildly throughout the series, usually between 141 and 148, so if there are massive die-offs, where are the extra people coming from? This is years before the Equinox crew was added.

I haven't counted the women, but there are way more than 32 of them. Just in case we were thinking that Vorik was being more selective in his count of partners for Torres (even if he said he wasn't).

VOY was always a bit iffy with crew count as I don't think the writers really kept track of how many got killed off. Memory Alpha has a list of all the extras' faces seen during the course of the series and they push the total crew complement well past 200.

That is true. Especially where guys are concerned. If you placed two adult males side by side, one "experienced" and one not, it would be humanly impossible to tell the difference.

Even for females the test is hardly foolproof.

 

[Oddish]

I'm struggling to get my head around this: You believe in the concept of "toxic masculinity", but you view it as a positive trait? Its absence, rather than presence, is what makes a man creepy to you?

Toxic masculinity doesn't end when men stop being men. It ends when they stop being bad.

You think that Janeway and Kim are both involuntary celibates, even after a list of people with whom they were in long-term relationships before Caretaker as well as brief swings after. That's before we get onto the many times each turned down offers of intimacy.

Janeway would see herself as an involuntary celibate, because there's no one on the ship who isn't under her command. Harry... well, he's just had some bad luck.

VOY was always a bit iffy with crew count a

It was iffy about a lot of things.

Even for females the test is hardly foolproof.

True. The physical evidence of virginity can be destroyed by something as innocuous as horseback riding.

The value of virginity, back in the day, lay in reproduction. Birth control and paternity tests are both recent inventions, and a man didn't want to expend his resources caring for a child he didn't produce. So, he wanted his wife to be a virgin when he married her.

 

[F. King Daniel]

That is true. Especially where guys are concerned. If you placed two adult males side by side, one "experienced" and one not, it would be humanly impossible to tell the difference.

Spoiler: Lower Decks S2

 

[Guy Gardener]

I'm struggling to get my head around this: You believe in the concept of "toxic masculinity", but you view it as a positive trait? Its absence, rather than presence, is what makes a man creepy to you?

I watched this show in the 80s.

When was the last time you watched Cobra or Red Heat?

We had a skewed value system back them, and I was too young to know any better.

So watching TNG in the 80s, Geordi did not come across as normal, like Sylvestor Stalone does.

In the 80s all masculinity was toxic masculinity.

 

[Oddish]

In the 80s all masculinity was toxic masculinity.

Not far off the mark... a top selling book back then was "Real Men Don't Eat Quiche". It was all about the stereotypical machismo of movies like that.

 

[Orphalesion]

The 80s must have been a strange time if the title character of "Cobra" looked more "normal" than Geordi. I always assumed all those over-the-top action heroes from the 80s were supposed to be comedy.
I mean yeah Geordi is often acting creepy with women, but that's something he, hopefully, eventually grew out of as he gained more experience.We see in the Barclay episode that he is capable of learning from his failures.
So in the most benign, and still possible interpretation of the future where Geordi is married to "Leah" is that an already divorced or widowed Leah Brahms met a Geordi who had undergone a good deal of self-development, and she found the more mature Geordi attractive.

Toxic masculinity doesn't end when men stop being men. It ends when they stop being bad.

That's why I'd actually advocate renaming Toxic Masculinity to something like "False Masculinity" because in my experience the biggest dispensers of toxic masculinity are man-children who desperately try to fit an often infantile idea what "real men" are supposed to be like.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Geordi is a pig if his holographic wife did not age. Consider, he wants to rut with the with the woman he fell in love with, even though its 2395, and the real Leah is 30 years older than what she looked like in season 4.

Geordie is a massive psycho if he did not generate completely original children for Leah. Imagine if he took a snapshot of her life after she'd had sprogs, so obviously, Holographic Leah would want THOSE SPECIFIC CHILDREN, or her brain would fail from the incongruity.

That's why I'd actually advocate renaming Toxic Masculinity to something like "False Masculinity" because in my experience the biggest dispensers of toxic masculinity are man-children who desperately try to fit an often infantile idea what "real men" are supposed to be like.

Suppressing emotion.

How come when Vulcans do it, it's cool?

 

[Orphalesion]

Suppressing emotion.

How come when Vulcans do it, it's cool?

Because they're aliens, probably have a whole different brain chemistry, and have their whole culture built around controlling their emotions in a way that's (supposedly) healthy?
I mean learning to "household" or "reign in" your emotions is a good skill for mental health no matter what sex or gender you are. Just in the real world its more about acknowledging, recognizing and finding healthy and appropriate outlets for said emotions rather than suppressing them or becoming a Vulcan.

 

[Oddish]

That's why I'd actually advocate renaming Toxic Masculinity to something like "False Masculinity" because in my experience the biggest dispensers of toxic masculinity are man-children who desperately try to fit an often infantile idea what "real men" are supposed to be like.

That's not a bad thought. Masculinity is at it's best when it's combined with universal human virtues like responsibility, compassion, and respect. It's at its worst when it's nothing more than physical and emotional toughness, and the absence of "weak" emotions like fear and sadness.