Spoilers Star Trek: Prodigy General Discussion Thread

[Christopher]

I think it's more that the specific phrase in TWOK was adapted as shorthand for all the times the Enterprise was the only ship available to handle a giant space amoeba/runaway doomsday machine/ancient Earth probe that's transcended the bounds of reality.

Yes, but I looked for phrases like "only ship" and "only vessel" and didn't find the abundance of references that fan myth presumes to exist.

Really, though, the whole idea in TOS was that the Enterprise was automatically the only ship in the immediate vicinity. That was the whole point -- that it was patrolling the far frontier, protecting remote colonies and outposts because there was nothing else that far out that could protect them. It was built into the premise, and thus didn't have to be called attention to, nor was it an implausible excuse in those circumstances. It didn't become a problem until the movies, which started hanging around Earth and the Federation core worlds more, so that claiming the Enterprise was the only available ship to address, say, a giant alien energy cloud heading toward the capital of the entire Federation made no sense at all.

 

[fireproof78]

I kind of miss the early days of the original Mandell maps when the "quadrants" specifically implied our local region of galactic space. Made a little more sense with all the bullshit contrived "Enterprise is the only ship in the Quadrant" dialog. So now, thanks to TNG's remapping, it's "Really? Enterprise is the only single fucking ship in the entire Alpha Quadrant?? How exactly does the Federation maintain order, defense and logistical supply??" Ugh... they really have lost their way in some regards.

Eh, I think that's taking the dialog too literal for what was presented at the time. "Quadrant" seemingly referring to a localized region of space rather than the big old divisions of the entire galaxy. Personally, I think "sector" would have done well, and then each sector is divided in to fourths if there is a need to fuss with it at all.

But, it's a goofy line that stands in a franchise full of goofy lines. Finding ways to make it work is the nature of Trek fandom it seems.

 

[Burning Hearts of Qo'nos]

I was watching Redemption II yesterday randomly, and as Picard and the others are talking about assembling the fleet, Riker says that Starfleet is stretched pretty thin over the quadrant. I noticed it because of this thread. I dunnoo, it felt like quadrant meant local space here and not the whole quarter of the galaxy just based on how people logically talk, so it stands to reason that quadrant just means something different contextually and they use the word loosely and not a single all-encompassing meaning. Then again, they are like between the border of Klingon and Romulan space so, I mean, they COOOULD have meant the Beta Quadrant, lol. Voyager should have started using Iso-quadrants for a measure of time just to mess with it even more.

 

[fireproof78]

I was watching Redemption II yesterday randomly, and as Picard and the others are talking about assembling the fleet, Riker says that Starfleet is stretched pretty thin over the quadrant. I noticed it because of this thread. I dunnoo, it felt like quadrant meant local space here and not the whole quarter of the galaxy just based on how people logically talk, so it stands to reason that quadrant just means something different contextually and they use the word loosely and not a single all-encompassing meaning. Then again, they are like between the border of Klingon and Romulan space so, I mean, they COOOULD have meant the Beta Quadrant, lol. Voyager should have started using Iso-quadrants for a measure of time just to mess with it even more.

I think, as in many things, taking it extremely literal for all occasions is going to lead to a small amount of consternation. Not the least of which is due to the fact that individual writers utilizing the terms differently, depending on the show, the episode and such. So, as you note, context is important for each episode and applying a catch all use of the term "quadrant" probably isn't going to be too accurate for different situations..

 

[Tim Thomason]

"Sector" and "Quadrant" are both human terms (English specifically) referring to humano-centric locations. The Klingons and the Romulans, and for that matter, the Vulcans and the Tellarites, don't work on systems with "Beta Quadrant" or "Sector 006" in their name. They're in the Imperial Sectant or the Primary Parsec or Merchant System 5 or whatever framing they use (in their own language and culture).

We're all hearing exonames that probably rely on foreign frames of reference that these aliens either have translated for them or learn to shrug off and get a proper explanation later.

If the Dominion, coincidentally, have a Quadrant system, it probably runs through the Founders' homeworld and all the "Alpha Quadrant" powers would then be conveniently placed in one Quadrant themselves.

 

[El Maestro]

Taking the discussion back to the opening credits and the music, I actually like what they did with this. Even having them and having them be substantial enough for the music to go through several distinct sections is a big enough deal. A 90 second opening sequence is very rare in modern television. And I LOVE the music and visuals after the third nacelle comes out and the ship and yellow whatever make the delta symbol as the music swells to the Courage 4-note "bell" motif. It is very well done musically and artistically.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Maybe sectors have sub-quadrants?

 

[137th Gebirg]

"Sector" and "Quadrant" are both human terms (English specifically) referring to humano-centric locations. The Klingons and the Romulans, and for that matter, the Vulcans and the Tellarites, don't work on systems with "Beta Quadrant" or "Sector 006" in their name. They're in the Imperial Sectant or the Primary Parsec or Merchant System 5 or whatever framing they use (in their own language and culture).

We're all hearing exonames that probably rely on foreign frames of reference that these aliens either have translated for them or learn to shrug off and get a proper explanation later.

If the Dominion, coincidentally, have a Quadrant system, it probably runs through the Founders' homeworld and all the "Alpha Quadrant" powers would then be conveniently placed in one Quadrant themselves.

And as much as I loved TOS Battlestar Galactica, those guys REALLY played fast an loose with Cosmology Terms, freely and frequently interchanging "Star System" with "Galaxy" synonymously, and even throwing the occasional "Universe" in there to make it sound EPIC! Fortunately, some evolution has occurred in the more modern writing staffs since 1978.

But yeah, quadrants and sectors do tend to be somewhat nebulous, quantitatively, for many folks. And then there was the infamous Star Wars "parsec" (mis)usage, which "Solo" amusingly tried to retcon-explain in a rather awkward manner.

 

[Christopher]

And then there was the infamous Star Wars "parsec" (mis)usage, which "Solo" amusingly tried to retcon-explain in a rather awkward manner.

What people have always misunderstood is that that line was wrong on purpose. The script specifies that when Han misuses "parsec," Obi-Wan rolls his eyes at the obviously nonsensical bluster. It was supposed to be evidence that Han was a blowhard who didn't know what he was talking about. But Guinness's eye roll was almost entirely lost in editing, so people mistook the character's error for the writer's error. And then Harrison Ford became a breakout star, so the sequels built up Han to the point that he actually was the incredible hotshot pilot he claimed to be. Which required them to come up with an excuse for why Han's line made sense after all.

 

[137th Gebirg]

And yet they still felt the need to retcon it in "Solo" to make its usage ostensibly "correct", 40 years after the fact.

 

[fireproof78]

And then there was the infamous Star Wars "parsec" (mis)usage, which "Solo" amusingly tried to retcon-explain in a rather awkward manner.

Works just fine in a film series that is all about space magic.

 

[Christopher]

And yet they still felt the need to retcon it in "Solo" to make its usage ostensibly "correct", 40 years after the fact.

Uhh, yes, I said that in the last sentence of my post.

And I think the retcon was made canon before Solo, albeit indirectly. I forget whether it was The Clone Wars or Rebels, but there was an episode where the characters had to navigate a certain hazardous region of space, and the explanation for how to do it in the shortest route was recognizably meant to be analogous to the Kessel Run, or was the same as the tie-in fiction's explanation for Han's line.

 

[The Old Mixer]

What's with you and "contrarianism"? People tend to have opinions. Most are likely to differ from yours. Statistically, then, "serial".

Just live with it.

Timo Saloniemi

Touch a nerve?

Live with it yourself.

Or better yet, put me on permanent ignore.

PLEASE, for the love of all-that-does-not-suck, put me on your permanent ignore.

That means forever.

Thanks.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Uhh, yes, I said that in the last sentence of my post.

And I think the retcon was made canon before Solo, albeit indirectly. I forget whether it was The Clone Wars or Rebels, but there was an episode where the characters had to navigate a certain hazardous region of space, and the explanation for how to do it in the shortest route was recognizably meant to be analogous to the Kessel Run, or was the same as the tie-in fiction's explanation for Han's line.

As you said...

 

[Cyrus]

Doing a search of the transcripts on Chakoteya.net, I find that, contrary to popular belief, the only use of the verbatim phrase "the only ship in the quadrant" was in The Wrath of Khan. The Final Frontier had Kirk say "There must be other ships in the quadrant," to which the admiral replied "Other ships, yes, but no experienced commanders."

That's interesting. I thought it was used in TMP too, but it must have something else like "the only ship close enough that could intercept an alien ship headed to Earth" (which is still an odd thing).

 

[Christopher]

That's interesting. I thought it was used in TMP too, but it must have something else like "the only ship close enough that could intercept an alien ship headed to Earth" (which is still an odd thing).

Yeah, as I mentioned, the concept, if not the actual phrase, was in both movies. It was actually worse in TMP, since why would there be only one ship available to protect the Federation capital? At least in TWOK, it was in reference to the region around Regula I and the Mutara Nebula, which seemed fairly remote, so it's not a problem there, as long as you keep in mind that "quadrant" as used back then was totally different from the TNG-era galactic quadrant system.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Except that in TWOK, they were cruising around Earth's solar system on impulse when they were the only ship in the quadrant...which still implies that they're the only ship near Earth.

 

[Christopher]

Except that in TWOK, they were cruising around Earth's solar system on impulse when they were the only ship in the quadrant...which still implies that they're the only ship near Earth.

Do we know that for sure? It was supposed to be a 3-week training cruise, which seems unlikely if they weren't supposed to leave Sol system. Sure, the film gives the impression that the jump to Regula is the first time they've engaged warp on the cruise, but I don't know if we can conclude that for certain. It could be that there's a time jump during which they travel further out and then go back to impulse for a while.


The one that gets me is the Generations prologue. We know for a fact that the E-B is stuck at impulse in the Sol system, and yet it's the only ship available to rescue the refugee ships from the Nexus. Doesn't Sol system have any kind of a Coast Guard? Shouldn't there be a large Starfleet presence overall?

 

[The Old Mixer]

Sure, the film gives the impression that the jump to Regula is the first time they've engaged warp on the cruise

That exactly. It was pretty clear that they weren't expecting to use warp drive on that cruise. Whether or not that makes sense is another issue.

We know for a fact that the E-B is stuck at impulse in the Sol system, and yet it's the only ship available to rescue the refugee ships from the Nexus. Doesn't Sol system have any kind of a Coast Guard? Shouldn't there be a large Starfleet presence overall?

Pretty much the same issue as in TWOK.

 

[Christopher]

It was pretty clear that they weren't expecting to use warp drive on that cruise.

That isn't stated outright as far as I can tell from the transcript. Again, it's slated to be a 3-week training cruise, which makes it unlikely that it would be impulse-only the whole time. The only mention of impulse drive is while they're leaving the drydock (which should actually be on thrusters). Nothing precludes them going to warp after that.

Still, the film definitely does suggest that not a lot of time passes between then and the ship receiving Carol's distress call. So I'll agree the film does imply that, but it isn't as explicit as it is in Generations.