News Daniel Craig signs up for Bond 25, Christopher Nolan in talks to direct

[Timby]

In fairness, that's what organizations like MI-6 and the US intel community really want for field operators. They don't want flamboyant tuxedo-wearing playboy types that light up the room the second they walk through the door. They want normal-looking (yes, sometimes even ugly) people who others wouldn't bother to give a second glance to. They move through crowds the easiest and get their mission accomplished without anyone noticing. Pretty Bond is total bullshit fantasy.

The Master of Disguise, by Antonio Mendez--the guy who ran the Canadian Caper that was later depicted in the movie Argo--is an excellent read on this subject. He and his wife were ideal undercover HUMINT agents because they looked like mildly overweight everyday American yokels, and as a result they were involved in some of the biggest intelligence operations in history.

 

[The Realist]

total bullshit fantasy

So, a proper Bond movie.

STEPhon IT mostly has the right of this.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

Here’s an excerpt from the novel Moonraker when Bond enters a gentleman’s club Blades in England, after being invited by M to observe the villain Drax.

“And what could the casual observer think of him, ‘Commander James Bond, G.M.G., R.N.V.S.R.’, also ‘something at the Ministry of Defence’, the rather saturnine young man in his middle thirties sitting opposite of the Admiral? Something a bit cold and dangerous in that face. Looks pretty fit. Tough-looking customer. Doesn’t look like the sort of chap one usually sees at Blades.

Bond knew there was something alien and un-English about himself. He knew he was a difficult man to cover up. Particularly in England. He shrugged his shoulders. Abroad was what mattered. He would never have a job in England. Outside the jurisdiction of the Secret Service. Anyway, he didn’t need a cover this evening. This was recreation.”

So the whole conceit that Bond should have model looks is pretty false, especially if you cite Pierce Brosnan as an example. He was too pretty for Bond IMO. Connery was a handsome man, but he had enough rough features to look like a man who’s seen action. I remember Gene Siskel once remarked that Brosnan looks more like James Bond’s chauffeur than James Bond. That’s pretty accurate.

If there’s anything inaccurate about Craig’s looks for Bond, it’s that he has blond hair and is two inches shorter. He also doesn’t have a visible scar down his cheek, but then again none of the other actors did.

 

[Timby]

So the whole conceit that Bond should have model looks is pretty false, especially if you cite Pierce Brosnan as an example. He was too pretty for Bond IMO. Connery was a handsome man, but he had enough rough features to look like a man who’s seen action. I remember Gene Siskel once remarked that Brosnan looks more like James Bond’s chauffeur than James Bond. That’s pretty accurate.

A really good friend of mine, several years ago, described Brosnan as a "greatest hits" Bond, in that he had the raw macho charm and sensuality of Connery, the comedy and absurdity of Moore, and occasionally he shows off the intensity and brutality of Dalton, all while never actually bringing anything of his own to the character.

Felt like a pretty bang-on assessment to me.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

A really good friend of mine, several years ago, described Brosnan as a "greatest hits" Bond, in that he had the raw macho charm and sensuality of Connery, the comedy and absurdity of Moore, and occasionally he shows off the intensity and brutality of Dalton, all while never actually bringing anything of his own to the character.

Felt like a pretty bang-on assessment to me.

Brosnan himself has gone on to say that he felt he never nailed the character. He even acknowledged that his method was just taking past Bonds and blending them together, but he always had trouble trying to find HIS Bond and is one of the things he regrets about his run.

 

[cardinal biggles]

It doesn't help that the material Brosnan was working with got progressively worse over his tenure. GoldenEye is great; Tomorrow Never Dies was pooh-poohed back then but is probably more relevant now than it was 25 years ago; TWINE stretches credulity, even for a Bond film; and the less we say about Die Another Day, the better.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

Ironically I think Brosnan gave his best performance in DAD. It’s the one where he feels really energized and in control with the role. It’s too bad that the movie is crashing all around him.

 

[Captaindemotion]

I still say the first half of DAD is great, particularly how it handles Bond - the capture and torture, his having dispensed with the cyanide tablet, how he escapes in Hong Kong etc.

 

[STEPhon IT]

News flash: Fleming's Bond was "ugly."

To you, he was ugly, Hoagy Carmichael to me was not ugly.

In fairness, that's what organizations like MI-6 and the US intel community really want for field operators. They don't want flamboyant tuxedo-wearing playboy types that light up the room the second they walk through the door. They want normal-looking (yes, sometimes even ugly) people who others wouldn't bother to give a second glance to. They move through crowds the easiest and get their mission accomplished without anyone noticing. Pretty Bond is total bullshit fantasy.

OO7 is fantasy, all of the movies were completely ridiculous. BS is part of the game in James Bond movies.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

To you, he was ugly, Hoagy Carmichael to me was not ugly.

I didn't say he was ugly. The quotation marks clearly mean it was subjective...and from Fleming's perspective, not mine.

Which I thought you'd pick up on considering you called Daniel Craig ugly.

It doesn't help that the material Brosnan was working with got progressively worse over his tenure. GoldenEye is great; Tomorrow Never Dies was pooh-poohed back then but is probably more relevant now than it was 25 years ago; TWINE stretches credulity, even for a Bond film; and the less we say about Die Another Day, the better.

I've always loved Tomorrow Never Dies and I haven't even seen it in years, certainly not since Michelle Yeoh's second renaissance.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

I always felt Craig's run being hyped as "more realistic" was kind of an exaggeration. It's certainly more grounded than what immediately preceded it in DIE ANOTHER DAY, but they're not John le Carré spy thrillers. CASINO ROYALE is ultimately still about a government agent assigned to gamble the government's money on a game of luck. In spite of having a darker and grittier aesthetic, it's still pretty fantastical and Craig oozes all the machismo that you expect from Bond. Just because he's not a pretty model doesn't mean women (or men) don't find him attractive as Bond.

 

[STEPhon IT]

I didn't say he was ugly. The quotation marks clearly mean it was subjective...and from Fleming's perspective, not mine.

Which I thought you'd pick up on considering you called Daniel Craig ugly.

Fleming meaning Bond was not a person who was politically correct, his perspective had nothing to do about the character's looks but what he was personality wise. And Yes, in my opinion, I think Craig's ugly, probably he's the sexiest man alive to many.

I always felt Craig's run being hyped as "more realistic" was kind of an exaggeration. It's certainly more grounded than what immediately preceded it in DIE ANOTHER DAY, but they're not John le Carré spy thrillers. CASINO ROYALE is ultimately still about a government agent assigned to gamble the government's money on a game of luck. In spite of having a darker and grittier aesthetic, it's still pretty fantastical and Craig oozes all the machismo that you expect from Bond. Just because he's not a pretty model doesn't mean women (or men) don't find him attractive as Bond.

Absolutely right, I just don't find him attractive. I hope the producers look for someone better looking.

So the whole conceit that Bond should have model looks is pretty false, especially if you cite Pierce Brosnan as an example. He was too pretty for Bond IMO. Connery was a handsome man, but he had enough rough features to look like a man who’s seen action. I remember Gene Siskel once remarked that Brosnan looks more like James Bond’s chauffeur than James Bond. That’s pretty accurate.

If there’s anything inaccurate about Craig’s looks for Bond, it’s that he has blond hair and is two inches shorter. He also doesn’t have a visible scar down his cheek, but then again none of the other actors did.

Lets not forget, the producer Harry Salzman had Cary Grant for the role and the only reason he was not cast was bc Grant would only do one where he wanted the actor to do 7. The books is one thing, but the movies wanted another, and the lore of cinema had a certain image of the character and Craig's face wasn't it in the 1960's.

 

[Timby]

Ironically I think Brosnan gave his best performance in DAD. It’s the one where he feels really energized and in control with the role. It’s too bad that the movie is crashing all around him.

Brosnan finally comes into his own in The World is Not Enough.

I still say the first half of DAD is great, particularly how it handles Bond - the capture and torture, his having dispensed with the cyanide tablet, how he escapes in Hong Kong etc.

DAD has interesting concepts, for example MI6 selling Bond out to the North Koreans and his recovery from it.

Problem is that most of that is disposed of in the (godawful) opening credits sequence.

I've always loved Tomorrow Never Dies and I haven't even seen it in years, certainly not since Michelle Yeoh's second renaissance.

Tomorrow Never Dies does not hold up particularly well on re-watch. The pre-credits open at the arms bazaar is phenomenal, and it's great that David Arnold crashed onto the scene with a score that echoed John Barry in all the right ways, and Jonathan Pryce is delicious as Evil Steve Jobs, but the movie is terribly over-long and is in desperate need of at least one action sequence being trimmed. Despite only being two hours long, with credits, it is just exhausting in how it flies all over the goddamn place.

 

[STEPhon IT]

In the audio commentary of Tomorrow Never Dies, Roger Spottiswoode and Michael G. Wilson admitted Tomorrow Never Dies was shot beat for beat in rhythm with GoldenEye, and I agree with them. Along with the great score, and finally a different and in my opinion a fresh villain that movie was Brosnan's best outing as James Bond.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Also released today is this short trailer of the upcoming documentary Being James Bond which, coincidentally, refers to the "controversary" of Craig's casting.

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Tomorrow Never Dies does not hold up particularly well on re-watch. The pre-credits open at the arms bazaar is phenomenal, and it's great that David Arnold crashed onto the scene with a score that echoed John Barry in all the right ways, and Jonathan Pryce is delicious as Evil Steve Jobs, but the movie is terribly over-long and is in desperate need of at least one action sequence being trimmed. Despite only being two hours long, with credits, it is just exhausting in how it flies all over the goddamn place.

Perhaps so. I am due for a rewatch.

Also, counterargument: Michelle Yeoh, so I don't care if it feels overly long.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

I like Die Another Day. It's fun. It's entertainment that's all that matters to me. Bond is fantasy bring on crazy gadgets and wild rides. That's what it should be.

 

[STEPhon IT]

Agreed. Besides the Madonna song which was not good, there were some clunker moments in Die Another Day but aren't there clunker moments in every Bond movie? None of them are perfect through and through, but I thought the invisible car was an interesting concept if the producers did something with it. Have the aston being chase through a real city and Bond had to escape because he had to save a life or had in possession of a macguffin and in a break neck moment the Aston Martin turns invisible. Besides that I thought the performances were great and Brosnan was James Bond. It was a nice send off to his OO7.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Agreed. Besides the Madonna song which was not good, there were some clunker moments in Die Another Day but aren't there clunker moments in every Bond movie? None of them are perfect through and through, but I thought the invisible car was an interesting concept if the producers did something with it. Have the aston being chase through a real city and Bond had to escape because he had to save a life or had in possession of a macguffin and in a break neck moment the Aston Martin turns invisible. Besides that I thought the performances were great and Brosnan was James Bond. It was a nice send off to his OO7.

The adaptive camouflage of the car was an actual concept at the time, well in theory.. Not sure if anyone has pushed it beyond a neat idea.

https://www.mi6-hq.com/sections/articles/bond_20_adaptive_camouflage.php3?id=0135

 

[MakeshiftPython]

Lets not forget, the producer Harry Salzman had Cary Grant for the role and the only reason he was not cast was bc Grant would only do one where he wanted the actor to do 7. The books is one thing, but the movies wanted another, and the lore of cinema had a certain image of the character and Craig's face wasn't it in the 1960's.

Sure, but that was the 1960s. Cubby Broccoli and Harry Saltzman used to cast women based on wet t-shirt contests despite not having any acting experience. We’ve come a LONG way from that.

Daniel Craig probably wouldn’t have gotten the part in 1962 just from his height alone. One time Burt Reynolds was considered for Bond, but Cubby dismissed him for his height (5’11”) referring to him as a “shrimp”.

But he doesn’t run this franchise anymore. His step son and daughter do now. They picked Craig because he blew the competition with his charisma and devil may care attitud. In spite of not looking like a classically traditional leading man, he was able to command the screen and his success in winning audiences in the part showed that.

 

[STEPhon IT]

And at last his stagnant run is finally over, I loved Casino Royale and that's pretty much it. Lets watch Craig's final "Bond in Training" outing and hopefully he doesn't change his mind and do another one, and finally in the future we get a OO7 who is charming, handsome, and has a wicked sense of humor. Gone with the EMO Bond, and I hope Craig goes out with a bang.