Yes.
What's the worst canon decision in the history of Trek?
- Thread starter Unimatrix Q
- Start date
He's named that way, btw, because he never played a duet.
Yet he's always paired with Chewie...
But never while singing.
One really bad canon decision was the Treaty of Algernon.
The idea that any sane diplomat would agree to giving an untrustworthy enemy power such a key strategic advantage over an unenforceable promise of peace is insane even for Roddenberry Trek.
The idea that any sane diplomat would agree to giving an untrustworthy enemy power such a key strategic advantage over an unenforceable promise of peace is insane even for Roddenberry Trek.
The presence of terms in the Treaty of Algeron regarding cloaking technology is obviously a metaphor for real world arms limitation treaties, wherein both sides maintained sufficient capabilities to provide adequate defense so that the other side had no overwhelming advantage and so that peace was possible. Complaints about such things, ranging from that they prevent one's own side from gaining advantage to characterizations of the other side as having an unfair advantage, are... common in the real world.
But they just look like humans with way too much make up...
Chewy prefers to go Life Day caroling with Leia.
Bears are dangerous because they are big and strong and have sharp claws and teeth. Their lack of facial expressions isn't important, because if you are close enough to a bear that you could read their expression (if they had an expression) you would be so close they would either flee or attack since you would probably be within their flight or fight distance.
And bear experts can probably read bears' emotional states from their body posture.
Interesting, although completely beside the point.
Teh terms quadrant and sector were undefined by the creators in real life. But no doubt they had precise definitions in the ficttonal universe of Star Trek.
As far as I know the main pre Enterprise mentions of klingon Federatin history. are:
"Errand of Mercy", in which the klingons attack the Federation after negotiatins break down, but the war is soon ended by the Organian Peace Treaty;
"The Trouble With Tribbles" which shows thee was either a single battle or an entire warwith the Klingson 23 years earlier.
STNG "First Contact"
So this establishes that first contact with the Klingons by soneone, probabyl Earth or the Federation, happened between 100 and 1,000 years earlier, and that it led to decades of war.. And that seems to be most in conflict with Klingon Contact in Enterprise. The seroes Enterprise ends about 4 years after first contact with the Klingons by Earth, without a shooting war with the Klingons developing. So if war with the klingons started after Enterprise ended, why would anyone blame the war on the first contact with the Klingons instead of some later contact with them? It seems to me that the decades long war (or series of wars) had to start very soon after the first contact, and probably before the second contact and the third contact and so on, in order for the first contact to be blamed for the war.
In Star Trek VI: the Undiscovered Country Spock reveals the situation and that chancelor Gorkon hopes to open negotiations.
I note that this is about 25 to 27 years since "The Trouble With Tribbles" when Spock said the Battle of Donatu V was 23 years earlier, thus making that battle about 48 to 50 years before the movie.. If Spock's "almost seventy years" was between 60 and 70 years, the period of "unremitting hostility" began about 60 to 70 years before the movie and about 10 to 22 years before the Battle of Donatu V.
STNG "Unificaiton" is "80 years" after Star Trek VI: the Undiscovered Country and thus about 105 to 107 years after "The Trouble With Tribbles", about 128 to 130 years after the Battle of Donatu V, and about 140 to 150 years after the beginning of the period of unremitting hostility with the Klingons.
I note that Spock said "unremitting hostility" instead of "unremitting hostilities" . Hostilities means warfare, so there would have to have been one single war lasting for 60 to 70 years with the Klingons. But at the begining of the movie Kerla tells Sulu to obey the treaty, showing that there is peace at the time. "Errand of Mercy" opens with peace, then the negotiations break down, the kingons invade,and war commences,and then the Organians impose the Organian Peace Treaty. So there has been peace for at least some of the "almost seventy years of unremitting hostility".
Hostility, unlike hostilities, can mean fealings of anger, distrust, and hostility, witout any actual violence happening. Thus the Federation & Earth on one side and the Klingon Empire on the other side could have been in a cold war and a tense relationship. for the almost seventy years, usually with a fragile peace and sometimes breaking out into hot wars. And the proportion of cold war and hot war during those almost 70 years is unknown.
Was the period of "almost seventy years of unremitting hostility" with the Klingons mentioned by Spock the same as the "decades of war" with the klingsons after first contact mentioned by Picard?. If so, the first contact would have been about 140 to 150 years before "Unification". Does that count as "centuries ago"? If anything more than one centuryof 100 years is enough to count as "centuries", 140 to 150 years could count as "centuries". But if a time span has to be more than 200 years to count as centuries, the disastrous contact would have to have been at least 200 years before "Unification".
"Broken Bow" was about 200 years before "Unification" so it was too long before Unification to be 140 to 150 years before "Unification". .So Picard probably meant that the disastrous first contact with the Klingson was at least 200 years earlier. Thus it might have been "Broken Bow". If "Broken Bow" was followed by at least 20 years of warfare with the Klingons, that war or series of wars would have lasted until about 180 years before "Unificaition", followed by a period of no more than 30 to 40 years of relatively better relations, possibly including a few wars, until the "almost seventy years of unremitting hostility" began .
And possibly the decades of warfare after contact with the Klingons lasted much longer than 20 years, making the interval between it and the "almost seventy years of unremitting hostility" much shorter. If that interval was too short, Picard might not tthink it worth mentioning and then he might have mentioned 120 years of war with the Klingons.
I don't know why the format suddenly changed
- A longer period of warfare after contact with the klingons could be separated from the "almost seventy years of unremitting hostility" by more decades or centuries of relative peace if the contact with the Klingons happende more than 200 years before "Unification".
- In that case the contact would not have been the events of "Broken Bow" but presumably a contact made by some other species with the Klingons.
- Possibly that species hired Klingn warriors as mercenaries and the Klingons took over their planet and began their empire.
- Possibly that species sold advanced technology including warp drive to the Klingons, and the Klingons built a space fleet and eventually began wars of conuest to found their empire. The Klingons would have been defeated after decades and stopped their wars of expansin for the moment, but eventually resumed them.
- And that was the information availabe to the creators of Enterprise which they should have considered when deciding whether the Klingons were previously known to humans, or if first contact was made during the series, or if the Klingons would not be contacted or known until after the series.
Making a big deal out of the Klingon Ridges. I just saw that Enterprise two parter, and while it's enjoyable, it's a little convoluted.
My theory was less that it was a good idea for canon and more they had no idea what to do with the show.
They certainly had no such idea beyond what a shrinking audience wanted to see.
I always wondered why they never seemed to want to do the Romulan War. A lot of ENT's obvious set ups only got covered in the novels.
I think the whole lack of face to face conflict drives that.
Which is interesting in that the Vulcan and Andorian arcs were great for the show. They were running out of ideas to the point where they took two episodes out of their season and did an entirely mirror universe story.
Manny Coto had been planning the ideas used in season 4 throughout the entire series. He wasn't out of ideas in season 4.
Didn't they bring him in during Season 3. If I recall he had nothing to do with Seasons 1 or 2.
I thought Season 4 was his first?
I believe what Trelane meant was that in the fourth season Coto was laying down groundwork for plots the show could revisit in a potential fifth season, and perhaps even a sixth and seventh. Coto did say that had the show continued past the fourth season, there would be regular revisits to the Mirror Universe, which was part of the reason why they went to the trouble of creating a new credit sequence specifically for the MU episodes.
The planned fifth season MU story has since been adapted into a novel.
The planned fifth season MU story has since been adapted into a novel.
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