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Spoilers John de Lancie confirms that shooting for seasons two *and* three is underway

I honestly kept assuming that Arirek Soong was a Noonian Soong android with his own consciousness uploaded like in the books because, really, that's the sort of thing he'd pull off.
 
I honestly kept assuming that Arirek Soong was a Noonian Soong android with his own consciousness uploaded like in the books because, really, that's the sort of thing he'd pull off.

I thought they were going to reveal he was Data that had been put into a new body and was just laying low.
 
I thought they were going to reveal he was Data that had been put into a new body and was just laying low.
Could you imagine if THAT was the reveal? It would be talked about until season 2; that could've been great, nothing can get people to have anticipation for a second season more than inviting cool ideas and presenting more of how sophisticated Soong's creation were? Star Trek used to be the series based on ideas, now they're about convoluted storytelling.
 
I thought they were going to reveal he was Data that had been put into a new body and was just laying low.

Honestly, Data becoming a biological human makes more sense than Picard becoming a robot.

Both make sense.

Could you imagine if THAT was the reveal? It would be talked about until season 2; that could've been great, nothing can get people to have anticipation for a second season more than inviting cool ideas and presenting more of how sophisticated Soong's creation were? Star Trek used to be the series based on ideas, now they're about convoluted storytelling.

In the TNG relaunch novels they did something like that to resurrect Data (The Cold Equations trilogy by David Mack specifically).

In a nutshell, Dr. Soong had created a highly advanced android that was pretty much as close to human in appearance and emotions as an android could be. During the events of TNG episode "Family," Dr. Soong had transferred his consciousness into an android he created for just that purpose and changed his identity so he could continue his work basically undisturbed.

He was never fond of Data being in Starfleet and he was furious at Captain Picard for allowing Data to sacrifice himself in Nemesis. However, he also learned Data's memory was transferred into B-4. B-4 was at the Daystrom Institute under the care of Bruce Maddox (Maddox in the novels, after his encounter with Data in "Measure of a Man" had become a big advocate for the rights of sentient androids and even sentient holograms like the Doctor). Ok, I know...going off in a tangent...anyway, I forget all the details but B-4 was having a lot of problems partly because of Data's memories and partly because he was a less advanced android. Soong didn't have time to create another android like himself for Data's consciousness so, like any good father would, Soong gave up his own android for Data. He consigned his own consciousness to oblivion so Data could live on in his own android body (though he would have all of Soong's memories). He also 'repaired' B-4 so he could continue to exist to the best of his capabilities.

Data did not rejoin Starfleet for a number of reasons, though he helped Captain Picard and the Enterprise a few times and he still considered them his friends.

Now, I should add, Star Trek: Picard is not at all in continuity with the relaunch novels. I only mention all this because there are other potential avenues to take with Data (and probably what they intended with Nemesis when they transferred Data's memories to B-4--to leave the door open to possibilities for Data if someone wanted to explore that further). The novels currently are up to 2387 and in that continuity Picard still commands the Enterprise, Riker is now an admiral. There has been no Romulan supernova...yet...or hint of one yet in that continuity. Though it's strongly hinted the upcoming Coda novel trilogy will somehow connect that continuity with Picard.

I guess because I've been reading those novels for the last 20+ years (and the continuity that's created for TNG, DS9, Voyager and Titan) I'm sort of a rebel and consider Picard the 'alternate' timeline. Part of it I guess is I also prefer where Captain Picard is there, rather than where Admiral Picard is. He still commanding the Enterprise doing what he does best, exploring and spreading peace. Now, the Federation has been to hell and back in the novels as well. They had to face a Borg invasion, and the Borg changed their modus operandi to annihilation, finally tiring of the Federation, though the Borg are now no more, there was also a Section 31 conspiracy that Picard unwittingly got tied up in that almost cost him his career, a Federation President was assassinated and they have chilly relations with the rival Typhon Pact. However, the Federation in that universe is still a force for good overall. The current chief of staff for Starfleet, Admiral Akaar, is much different than the chief in Picard. He's a force for good and has used his influence and authority to work to take down Section 31 and for other positive changes.
 
I love the novels and wish the television shows would adapt more of their material to the screen. I would have really liked them using the Romulan language from the books and elements of the books for their culture for example. However, I think the books tend to "play it safe" to an extent and thus Picard is always out there as the Enterprise's captain.

I think the heart of Picard is it's most controversial concept: that Picard has one massive career ending blunder that changes the course of his life and not everyone ends up entirely perfect in their lives, even those who retired nicely.
 
However, I think the books tend to "play it safe" to an extent and thus Picard is always out there as the Enterprise's captain.

Yes and no. Yes, Picard still being captain of the Enterprise might be considered playing it safe. But the relaunches have broken a lot of new ground as well.

  • There was a devastating Borg attack that wiped out entire worlds. Then the Borg were eliminated as a threat forever.
  • There was a Section 31 conspiracy to remove President Zife from power, with Picard's involvement (though he was not aware of Section 31's role at the time). This led to Admiral Akaar letting Picard know he will never be promoted from Captain.
  • There have been numerous crew changes. The authors have had to develop entirely new characters never seen before on screen and make us as the readers care about those characters, and miss them when they are gone
  • The creation of the rival Typhon Pact
  • The assassination of President Bacco and the conspiracy to replace her
  • Andor seceding from the Federation (though they later rejoined) and the whole reproductive crisis
  • Taking down Section 31 once and for all
  • The destruction of the original Deep Space Nine station and the building of a new station
  • The dispersion of the Founders
  • Riker is promoted to Admiral
Not to mention all that has happened in the Delta Quadrant since the fleet went there. So I'd argue the novels didn't really play it safe. The more recent books might have been a bit more familiar to TNG fans and where things are before Coda comes out is in a better place than the Picard timeline is in 2387. But they still have many challenges to face, and some that left worlds destroyed.
 
I love the novels and wish the television shows would adapt more of their material to the screen. I would have really liked them using the Romulan language from the books and elements of the books for their culture for example. However, I think the books tend to "play it safe" to an extent and thus Picard is always out there as the Enterprise's captain.

I think the heart of Picard is it's most controversial concept: that Picard has one massive career ending blunder that changes the course of his life and not everyone ends up entirely perfect in their lives, even those who retired nicely.
EXACTLY, there are many stories which could've been told about Picard to enrich viewers' imaginations for interesting things to come, but CBS rather meander and chose THAT lame concept because it had to be told. Very Star Trek.
 
Ooohhh…well, the novels might have won out over current Treks then.

Yeah. That was David Mack's Destiny trilogy. The Federation was on the brink of annihilation. The Borg basically decided the Federation needed to be destroyed.

I just disagree that the novels played it safe. The only "safe" thing they did was that Picard is still captain. Otherwise they weren't afraid to shake things up.

But all that being said, the PTBS in that Federation mostly tried to take the right path despite the difficulties they endured. Part of the reason I prefer that timeline.
 
I don't care for David Mack's Destiny Borg novels they were too dark and depressing .They had too much war and death.I only read them once and never wanted to read them ever again .I was tired and bored with the borg books that came out at that time.
 
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^ But how many Borg-centric novels would you be willing to read to get to that part...?
 
^ But how many Borg-centric novels would you be willing to read to get to that part...?

It's a difficult question.

It actually wasn't many. Destiny was pretty early in the relaunch. IIRC there were 3 books leading into Destiny. Mack gave us an origin for the Borg also (and a reason perhaps why the Borg seemed to have a special interest in humanity).

Yes billions were annihilated, one of the reasons I noted the novels hardly played it safe. And I noted some other areas where they pushed things. But the Federation and Starfleet in the novels is more the familiar trying to move in a positive direction, even if they stumble from time to time. It feels more Star Trekkie to me.

And whatever challenges Captain Picard faced he never quit... never retreated into himself.

I don't hate Picard. But there are things that don't feel quite right to me about it.
 
Unseen, unknown billions are just a number. Picard never having left his familiar series role of captain of the Enterprise...that's playing it safe.

I'm probably not doing it justice. The trilogy was pretty intense about it, and the books that followed drove home the devastation of it all. Risa....gone. Pacifica...turned into a massive refugee camp, and much more. David Mack didn't just throw out billions of lives lost like a statistic. It was much more than that, to the point that as you see some novel readers were turned off by it all.

I did note the only thing I thought the novels played it safe on was that Picard remains Captain of the Enterprise...at least as of 2387. However, even Captain Picard has undergone huge challenges, not just in the Borg attack but in numerous other ways. Because of his involvement with Section 31's 'coup' (for lack of a better word), however unwitting, it almost cost him his career, and it did cost him any chance at ever being promoted. But in many other ways the novels upended a number of things in the Star Trek universe. I expect that the upcoming Coda trilogy will upend things again (which is hinted to tie that universe into the Picard universe...and in the Picard novels that have come out it is strongly implied that the Romulan supernova may not have been a natural event).

But as with anything, to each his own. I just prefer that timeline over where Picard is. Some of that is naturally because I've been reading the relaunch novels for over 20 years now, since DS9 got the ball rolling. I've become invested in those storylines and the characters created for the novels. Part of it is like I mentioned, for all the horrors that Federation and Starfleet faced, they had enough 'good' people to keep those institutions from sliding backwards. The Federation of Picard is insular and reactive, and it's just hard for me to swallow. And Admiral Picard is almost unrecognizable, at least until the last 2 or 3 episodes.

Star Trek: Picard just felt off to me. I don't mind shaking things up, but there are certain characteristics I see, personality traits in Picard that just don't match up with Admiral Picard. I guess another thing is I look to Star Trek for a positive view of the future. Between Picard, and what happens to the Federation centuries later according to Discovery, things look bleak.

But, as with all things Star Trek, we will disagree. Some love Picard and what that did to the Star Trek universe, some hate it, and some are like me, find things they like about the show, even if things feel 'off' about it.
 
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