Chekov was not in the episode "Space Seed", if TWOK's Khan remembers someone who wasn't there and wasn't even invented yet, it is not canon to me.
Why do you rank TFF highly?
- Thread starter EnriqueH
- Start date
TWOK is canon.
Space Seed is canon.
Therefore Chekov knowing Khan is canon. Whether or not a person treats them as in the same continuity is another story. Largely, TOS is it's own continuity for me.
Space Seed is canon.
Therefore Chekov knowing Khan is canon. Whether or not a person treats them as in the same continuity is another story. Largely, TOS is it's own continuity for me.
That's right, as much as I love and appreciated the movie, what Khan said to Chekov I can brush it off and move on to the real meal of the tale. The revenge of Noonien Singh on movie Kirk.
Possible controversial opinion time- if I can easily (emphasis on easily) explain something I don't regard it as a continuity violation. Chekov knowing Khan could be as simple as a lower Decks encounter unseen. Vs. Something like the Enterprise refit and age. Less easy to explain. Chekov can exist in the same continuity as TWOK with minimal conflict.
Not everything needs explanation. Mileage will vary.
In @Greg Cox 's novel "To Reign In Hell," there is a pretty reasonable explanation that you could absolutely imagine "yes, this is how it likely happened"
And it's a very engrossing read otherwise!
The whole Khan knowing Chekov thing is pretty minor to me. I easily brushed that off that Chekov was on the ship, just in a different part of the ship at the time. As an ensign I doubt he'd come on board and be immediately assigned as the alpha shift navigator anyway. It makes sense that he'd have to work his way up to that.
The novel To Reign in Hell by Greg Cox addresses this by making Chekov part of the landing party that beamed down with Khan when he was first exiled. He gave McGivers the Starfleet medallion we see Khan wearing in TWOK as a gift so she would always remember her time on the Enterprise. He also gave Khan a phaser and helped coordinate leaving some other basics Khan and his band of merry supermen would need to start their colony. So that's the explanation in the novel for how Khan recalled Chekov.
Now, as I always point out, novels are not canon. However. that novel (an excellent novel by the way, highly recommended for any fan of TWOK) does provide an explanation for that seeming inconsistency, along with many others, linking "Space Seed" to TWOK. I always plug that novel for many reasons---and it's just a great Star Trek novel, period. Probably one of my top 3 favorite Star Trek novels I've ever read (Chain of Attack by Gene DeWeese and the Destiny trilogy by David Mack are probably the other 2 of my favorite Star Trek novels of all time BTW
).
The novel To Reign in Hell by Greg Cox addresses this by making Chekov part of the landing party that beamed down with Khan when he was first exiled. He gave McGivers the Starfleet medallion we see Khan wearing in TWOK as a gift so she would always remember her time on the Enterprise. He also gave Khan a phaser and helped coordinate leaving some other basics Khan and his band of merry supermen would need to start their colony. So that's the explanation in the novel for how Khan recalled Chekov.
Now, as I always point out, novels are not canon. However. that novel (an excellent novel by the way, highly recommended for any fan of TWOK) does provide an explanation for that seeming inconsistency, along with many others, linking "Space Seed" to TWOK. I always plug that novel for many reasons---and it's just a great Star Trek novel, period. Probably one of my top 3 favorite Star Trek novels I've ever read (Chain of Attack by Gene DeWeese and the Destiny trilogy by David Mack are probably the other 2 of my favorite Star Trek novels of all time BTW
).
<cough>Lower Decks<cough>
I just started watching Lower Decks so I'm not too familiar with that (I don't stream so I have to wait for the Blu-Ray for the current series). So I'm not sure what you are referencing their unless I missed something.
But then, that is a century later
"Lower Decks" is explained in the first episode, and could explain his sudden appearance on the bridge; a recent promotion from the lower decks.
Anyway sorry I brought it up. Have a good one.
Anyway sorry I brought it up. Have a good one.
It is still a good movie regardless and that's what matters.
Indeed. If it needs explanation at all.
That does help. I find it easier to overlook things if the end result is a good movie. TWOK is my 2nd favorite Star Trek film.
And for me I've always been a bit backwards when it comes to Star Trek. I watched the movies first. So at first I didn't even realize anything was wrong. When I saw "Space Seed" for the first time I forgot about Chekov at first. I recall I was hoping to get to see a scene on Ceti Alpha V while it was still a livable planet. But sadly that never happened. Eventually I realized Chekov wasn't in that episode (or that season for that matter). I thought it was a bit strange at first, but then I just figured maybe Chekov was somewhere else on the ship, unseen, and ran into Khan at some point. I just checked the novelization for the film and it really didn't say much about Chekov meeting Khan, except at the time he was on the night watch at the time.
As for TFF, I think a remaster and a documentary of the movie be told; something like what 20th Century Fox did for Alien 3, I believe there's more to the story and should be done before William Shatner's demise.
This.
Yeah, at the end of the day, from Paramount's standpoint it's canon.
Now viewers are free to disregard or treat it however they wish, but from the owner's standpoint Chekov knew Khan during the events of "Space Seed."
This.
Of course. But, declarative statements around canon miss that point. Also, continuity is a more accurate term.
Personally, TOS as presented is not 100% in continuity with TMP forward. But, the events happened just not as visually depicted.
Of course. But, declarative statements around canon miss that point. Also, continuity is a more accurate term.
Personally, TOS as presented is not 100% in continuity with TMP forward. But, the events happened just not as visually depicted.
Yeah, for sure. And fans are free to follow or disregard whatever they wish.
The only problem might come in with that is some future show might upend a fan's continuity. I found that with the novel continuity I've followed the last 20+ years in the TNG/DS9/Voyager/Titan universe. Picard totally upended that, to the point that pretty much nothing from the novels can co-exist with Picard.
One can treat the whole Chekov knowing Khan thing as inconsistent, but if the showrunners consider it canon and include it with some future show/movie (granted, not likely in that case, but just as an example), then you are left with a choice to revise your own 'personal' continuity, or disregarding that new piece of information on the show.
But that choice, is as always, up to the individual fan. In my case, I can't help but think of the novel continuity as the 'prime' universe. I guess I've become too invested with that over the years that I can't help but think of Picard as an alternate timeline, instead of the reverse. Of course I know that's not how the showrunners view it. But that's ok. Just as it's ok for Steph to view the whole Chekov knowing Khan thing in her own way.
Similar threads
- Poll
