Spoilers "Superman & Lois" Season 1 spoiler discussion!

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by The Realist, Feb 22, 2021.

  1. DarKush

    DarKush Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I agree. I get the reason for the first break, that couldn't be helped but I was thrown a bit by the third. I had gotten behind and thought I had two episodes to catch up on and then found out it was only just one. In any case it feels like a momentum killer.

    As for this past week's episode the big twist at the end left me cold. While I've enjoyed this series/first season a lot more than I thought I would I feel they've gone way too much into overdrive. This season alone we've had the misdirects with Irons and Edge, and we've had Superman possessed by Zod, Lana possessed by Lara-El, and now Jordan possessed by Zeta-Rho. And we've had Tal-Rho being totally consumed by the Eradicator. That's a lot in one season to process.

    To me I think a great season finale would've been Superman being possessed by Zod. They didn't need to go beyond that. The Zeta-Ro/Jordan thing just feels like a rehash now, especially after Superman's possession was quickly solved.

    I did like how Steel's took out Leslie Lar in this episode, a very nice save. I'm also intrigued by Jonathan's new girlfriend. I'm guessing her family has to be 'someone'. Perhaps this she will turn out to be Lex's daughter.
     
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  2. crookeddy

    crookeddy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Btw the third break was because they didn't want to go against the Olympics.
     
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  3. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah One can assume viewers were never dedicated enough to ever return in season high numbers for reasons not limited to CW's avoidance of the Olympics, etc.
     
  4. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I wonder if they shot their load too early with Edge because it felt like they've already had their climatic battle. Might be a bit of that post-Endgame type malaise now in this back stretch.
     
  5. Noname Given

    Noname Given Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Or, many are watching via other means (freely provided by the CW too).
     
  6. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Well, it looks like Zeta-Rho is the final boss rather than Tal-Rho/Edge. I think they planned it that way all along, since we've seen since midseason that Tal was just following the orders of his abusive holo-father. He's the Palpatine to Tal-Rho's Vader. (I wouldn't be surprised if there was some kind of redemption in store for Tal-Rho. He is Superman's half-brother, after all, and this show is all about family bonds.)
     
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  7. mswood

    mswood Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Ughhhhh!

    Sorry I am going to nitpick but your post is factually inaccurate. You seem to always compare finals from one week to preliminaries for the current week. There are two big problems with this. Preliminary Fast Nationals measure data over the time period, regardless of what is actually airing in that time period, while Finals measure only the program. So Fast nationals might include a minute or two of a program running late into the next hour, or for example if the programs preempted in a marker for a local event, typically a sport. It will report those ratings as part of the ratings for the program that is nationally supposed to be airing there. All of those things get adjusted in finals.

    And more importantly you are comparing gains and loses to one measurement that only goes to one decimal point, to data that gets publicly reported to 2 decimal points.

    In your post you list that the show was down 33% in the demo from the last airing. This is utterly false. The rounded .1 reported for episode 14 means it could be any ratings between (in rounded to two decimal points) .06 and .14. Which could mean it had a massive drop to a rather minor one.

    And in a rather odd coincidence the .15 reported for episode 13 is rounded up (meaning it would have been .145 - .149) and if that had been reported to just one decimal point (some places only list them that way) it would also be a .1, which would give the impression that episode 14 was actually steady with episode 13.

    Final ratings for the night give it a rounded .13. So that's a roughly a 13% decline from the previous week. (Data with more decimal points would change it even further, but that's going to be fairly close).

    Now you can certainly argue that this show needs higher ratings. But the simple truth of the matter is that the CW is run at a loss. It's parent companies, use the CW has a programming platform that they can then sell off network. And that is what keeps the light on. Almost no original scripted programming for the CW is geared to earn a profit off of its broadcast on the CW (this wasn't always the case when it first started but those times are long past). The CW seed gets in many shows cases more fews than broadcast does (we have no knowledge on how much they earn for this versus broadcast, but it still isn't enough to break even).

    The biggest is external streaming providers, like for example Netflix. For Superman and Lois that is HBO Max (and why Warner Brothers was willing to spend so much more on this show than any other Arrowverse program, thanks AT&T). Then you have properties that perform not only on streaming sites but have had lucrative cable syndication deals. Supernatural to this day, has enjoyed 11 years of extremely lucrative earnings from its multiple daily airings on TBS. Then you also have properties that are financed due to overseas broadcast deals. Dynasty for example has lucrative overseas deals which more then cover the full production cost of making the episodes.

    In many ways the earnings from the CW are just icing on the cake. They haven't been the larger part of their revenue stream for years and years.
     
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  8. thribs

    thribs Vice Admiral Admiral

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    A rather rushed fine but it was pretty good. I was expecting a Lex tease at the end but I suppose they have been telegraphing that his daughter would be coming.
    I’m glad they kept Edge alive. He could be an ally further down the road.
    Supergirl is next. I hope they explain why she want around in this.
     
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  9. The Realist

    The Realist Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I did think it could have used a little more breathing room. Maybe a 1-1/2 hour time slot like the pilot. The sequence of Lois in Jordan's mind in particular I thought could have been expanded.
    As soon as Natalie cropped up in the "previously on," I told my wife she would show up before the end of the episode. Those recaps can operate as implicit spoilers, since nothing gets shown in them that isn't directly relevant to that night's episode.

    Nat's arrival is great, though, and stands to yield big dividends for the show. Besides the emotional ramifications for Lois, the boys have just essentially gained a sister.

    Terrific finale, in keeping with the rest of the season. Taken together, these 15 episodes represent the very best Superman media adaptation in decades.

    A+. ;)
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2021
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  10. The Realist

    The Realist Vice Admiral Admiral

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  11. mswood

    mswood Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Easily the weakest episode of the season in my opinion. This should have been either a two parter, an extended episode, or they should have cut out the last 5 minutes of the episode.

    I am seriously not impressed to see Natalie. Just not what I wanted to see. There better be a damn good explanation for it, and why they stay.
     
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  12. Ovation

    Ovation Admiral Admiral

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    A good, not great, finale for a good season. Would have been better as either a two parter or at least an extra half hour (though I understand the practical reasons why such was unlikely).

    Few shows peak in their first season (hence “good season” IMO) but this one was generally good. Looking forward to seeing the next one.

    Biggest surprise for me was Sam’s stepping down from the military (even if I think it won’t be permanent).

    Just hope the Green Lantern show has as good a first season.
     
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  13. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Superman and Lois
    Season 1 finale - Episode 15 - "Last Sons of Krypton"

    Clark/SM / Lois / Jordan:
    Edge/Daddy/Jordan (or rather Alex Garfin) was doing his damnedest to give a possessed Reagan MacNeil performance. After the "will he go too far' preliminaries passed, you knew it was going to come down to the family connection to pull Jordan back. The plot subverted expectations by having Jonathan be the one to finally reach Jordan, instead of Lois.

    The one good Chrissy moment was her question about the possibility of humans fearing Superman...and they should (more than this series will ever explore) because yes, he is an overpowered alien with next to no opposition. It does not matter if people knew Edge was the threat, a Kryptonian is a Kryptonian, and humans would be fearful of an unstoppable, unchecked force doing (or capable of doing) anything he desired.

    Irons:
    His daughter surviving, leaving her world and landing at the Kent farm....yes, Plot Convenience 101. Further, having her look of shock at Lois (the "mom" business") and Clark (evil) cannot be the basis of a major plot for season two. One, it would be rinse and repeat of Irons' early arc, and two, Irons himself could explain that away in five minutes. Depending on her age, she might end up sticking around to attend high school with the Kent boys.

    Edge:
    So that's it, for now (SEE NOTES).

    Sam Lane:
    Once again, the Smallville townsfolk lay their misplaced blame at the D.O.D.'s feet, and accuse them of everything under the sun. Sam should have asked them, "What would you do?" but he's not a tit-for-tat guy, so that was not going to happen (to his credit).

    Sam stepping down from thew D.O.D. only makes sense if the showrunners are going work on fully integrating him into his family's lives, and not end up a marginalized punching bag like--for one example--Jacob on Batwoman.

    Jonathan / Tegan:
    Jonathan certain loves guns (that dumping scene), but it was a nice moment for Lois to trust him with the Killgrave rifle--no debate or fear, just trust. About Tegan: I'm still hoping there are no soap opera-esque hidden dramas that frames their relationship.

    Lana/Kyle/Sarah: At least the Cushings displayed some family unity in this episode, but it did not need the often hated Kyle saving someone in order to win Sarah's respect, when it should have been there long ago. Despite his earlier fanboying of Edge, a few of his decisions were made in his family's best interests, which Sarah is old enough to at least try to understand.

    NOTES:

    ...and a Kryptonian threat makes itself known to all, and there's no other Arrowverse superheroes to be found, a fact made more apparent with Sam's "World's finest" line, and yeah, he was referring to Superman and Irons, but this is the ever-so-connected Arrowverse, and if ever there was a need for other heroes to show up....

    As predicted, main character Jordan was never in real danger, and unfortunately, I still see the Edge/daddy plot bleeding into season two with another stab at hurting or corrupting one (or more) of the Kents.

    While Jonathan is leaning in his grandfather's direction, I imagine he would face threats more as a vigilante type than ever serving in the military or associating with the D.O.D. (years down the road, of course).

    Season one: As a series, Superman and Lois is..serviceable, but unadventurous TV fantasy. Noted weeks ago, Elizabeth Tulloch was the "get" for this series and its true anchor--something never seen in any other live action Superman production. Yes, this speaks to the writers knowing how to write to Tulloch's many strengths, but it also casts a revealing light on the weaknesses of Heochlin as Clark/Superman. It is understood that he's portraying a Clark at a different, older stage of life, but at times, he appears to be sampling a "father" plug-in because the plot says so, but the dominant side of his performance borrows a bit too much from Reeve's (more the unsure routine, not the bumbler act). Every actor ever to take on the role tried to make it their own (with a lot of hit and miss interpretations), and if successful, tapped into how this fantasy alien would function in the world, which meant there was little borrowing from actors who represented an approach and perception of another era.

    Hoechlin does not (or cannot) work to make his Clark/Superman his own when he's channeling the performance of another. Whether that's a showrunner mandate, or actor decision, either way, the character is weaker for that choice.

    The series had a number of necessary irons in the fire (family adjustment to Smallville, teen growing pains, etc.), but the hook--the fantasy element (Edge) that calls Superman to be Superman--was patently underwhelming. Rayner's best Edge moments were early on, as the mustache-twirling, big money ass, but as Tal-Rho--the reason he was on the show--he dipped into the same pool of too many comic adaptation villains: the chest juts out while going on about threats, plans, and yeah, no one can stop you. Not for a moment did Edge feel like he would be a legitimate threat to Smallville, Metropolis (or anywhere else); he was just angry, and his plans all seemed so pedestrian. Obviously, there have been far better, believable Kryptonian threats in live action, whether one is talking about Shannon's seething, entitled Zod or Stamp's (mainly in the Krypton prologue of 1978's Superman), both convincing the audience that there would be no peace if they were--frankly--still breathing. That's how to write a strong villain, something lacking in this series' Edge.

    By now in the Berlanti production house, it should be expected that the all-important first season (shortened or not) would come out of the gates making a bold statement saying, "this is what a superhero show can be", (see: Black Lightning's 1st season) but it did not. The series has its good points, but in no way is it a great representation of Superman by any stretch of the imagination, or the far and away best of this era--which is Man of Steel.

    GRADE: C-.
     
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  14. crookeddy

    crookeddy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    This episode really needed some mention of supergirl... At least a throwaway line about what she's doing... If not, they shouldn't have had diggle show up to remind us of the shared universe... Can't have it both ways.
     
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  15. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    True--and with all of this series' focus on sharing Kryptonian heritage to the sons, there was not a "oh, I also have a cousin with powers and a costumed ID similar to my own". One could guess that another reason the sons never mention Supergirl, is that in this "timeline," Supergirl died or took that theorized, one-way trip to the far future, perhaps when the boys were at diaper age, and would not remember her at all.
     
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  16. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Unless the memory of Supergirl has been wiped from the world, along with all the other Kryptonians and aliens, it would be really strange for them to show up later as if they'd been there all along. I think Diggle was contractually obligated and don't know they'd have gone there except their hand was forced.
     
  17. The Realist

    The Realist Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^ Interestingly, in a couple of post-season interviews, showrunner Todd Helbing has said season 2 will answer a lot of questions about how the show is connected to the rest of the Arrowverse. (Personally, I’d just as soon it remained largely isolated, but we shall see what we shall see.)
     
  18. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Okay... so if holo-Jor-El is being counted as a real person deserving of a funeral, doesn't that mean that Jordan killed holo-Zeta-Rho when he took back his mind? And that Superman killed Zod's consciousness when he did the same? And what about all the other banished Kryptonian consciousnesses, including Lara? Did they commit genocide by erasing them all? Shouldn't they be a lot less blase about that? Rather situational definitions of personhood here.

    Why exactly did John have to throw the hammer from so far away to build up its speed? It didn't seem to be under thrust, just flying ballistically, in which case a longer flight would've slowed it down through air resistance, not sped it up. That was a weak excuse to put John's life in danger.

    Season finales are often among the weakest episodes, because of the need to focus so much on plot mechanics and big action and tying everything off. This one didn't break the pattern. It wasn't bad, but it could've been better. As others mentioned, there were parts that deserved more exploration. It would've been cool to see more of Lois sifting through Zeta's mind, using her journalistic skills to find her answers, rather than just relying on motherly emotion.

    Superman's interview/speech in the aftermath was a highlight, though. Hoechlin is so good in the role, and the writers really get Superman as a character.
     
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  19. Shamrock Holmes

    Shamrock Holmes Commodore Commodore

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    Logically that's true, however it's probable referencing a deep cut from the comics where "inertial dampers" fitted to his hammer make it hit harder the farther it flies.

    https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Kinetic_Hammer

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. FreezeC77

    FreezeC77 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well Jonathan's love interest did drop that her Father was put in prison in Central City and then they moved to Smallville... So could be a Flash connection to one of his villains.
     
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