Spoilers Lord of the Rings TV series

[saddestmoon]

@StarMan - yeah, it does add up to a pretty penny!

Great to discover another fellow NZer on these boards!

Must confess: I was both an extra in TTTs back in the day, as a Rohan warrior at Helms Deep, located at the quarry in the Hutt - and later as an Mirkwood Elven Warrior in BOTFAs, located at both Stone Street Studios, and up the back hillside near Massey Memorial - just past Shelly Bay.

They were long days shooting, but fun times!

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

I will watch the series in the hope that the story hasn't been HBOified. The released image of the two trees and what is probably Tirion before the First Age make me hopeful that it will be respectful to Tolkien's legacy. In the meantime, I'm looking forward to Andy Serkis's audiobook reading of the complete LotR trilogy due out in September. Rob Inglis's version might not be the definitive one after all.

ETA: Tolkien probably would have understood if the story of the Elder Days becomes changed in adaptation. This excellent video explains why:

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However, I doubt he would approve of his oeuvre being used as a vehicle to depict gratuitous nudity and/or sex for the titillation of the viewer. Anyone who needs such entertainment can obtain it readily elsewhere.

 

[JD]

I haven't seen or heard anything to make me think they're going to go that route with it. Sure there's a lot of that kind of thing in Game of Thrones and The Witcher, but that was appropriate to the their source material.

 

[fireproof78]

Tolkien probably would have understood if the story of the Elder Days becomes changed in adaptation.

It would depend greatly on the type of change. I think. At least based upon his letter around a script treatment. Granted it was a poor treatment, but still, I think there would be some objections even to Jackson's adaptation.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

It would depend greatly on the type of change. I think. At least based upon his letter around a script treatment. Granted it was a poor treatment, but still, I think there would be some objections even to Jackson's adaptation.

Yeah, I thought some elements of Jackson's adaptation of LotR were too thrill-oriented and over the top but I overlooked these given that the quality of the overall product. However, Jackson really overeged the pudding when it came to The Hobbit. Adding more and more ingredients subtracted from the quality of the whole in that case. I'll happily watch the former trilogy in the extended cut but I'm unwilling to make the time for the second, even in the theatrical cut. Perhaps there's a cutdown edit that would be acceptable but the tone would still be much different from the spirit of a book that was originally aimed at children. Just my opinion - if others dig stuff that I don't, fine - I can distract myself elsewhere. It's a commercialised mass-market entertainment product in the end. It either succeeds or fails financially, whatever its subjective artistic merit.

 

[fireproof78]

Adding more and more ingredients subtracted from the quality of the whole in that case. I'll happily watch the former trilogy in the extended cut but I'm unwilling to make the time for the second, even in the theatrical cut. Perhaps there's a cutdown edit that would be acceptable but the tone would still be much different from the spirit of a book that was originally aimed at children.

So, here's my own personally theory on this and what creators tend to be tempted to do with prequels specifically-go "Wouldn't it be cool if?" I think Star Wars, ENT, and the Hobbit all illustrate this need to bring in references from the original film (yes, I know the Hobbit predates the LOTR book but the films are the reverse). So, Legolas ends up being heavily featured, Galadriel and Gandalf need more screen time together, as well as references to Gimli, and Aragorn, etc. that take away from the overall story.

I do agree that I think an edit could be compiled together that follows the Hobbit book more closely, while leaving things like the White Council and the attack at Dol Guldur as appendices. I mean, those are some of my favorite moments but largely not part of the Hobbit narrative.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

I enjoyed the Dol Guldur and White Council sequences. I can even tolerate Radagast's rabbit-powered transportation. The Battle of the Five Armies goes on too long, the escape from the goblin king is cartoonish and silly, and the elf/dwarf romance plotline is both ridiculous and unnecessary. I wouldn't mind the addition of Tauriel and Legolas if they had just used the interaction between them.

 

[theenglish]

I didn't mind the elements of The Hobbit movies that were actually part of what happened, even most of the speculation on the Battle of the Five Armies. It was the entirely invented for the movie stuff that I didn't like.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

The movie that I would have preferred - a single 3-hour adaptation without bloat - would not have made the money at the cinema that the trilogy made. Once people had made the commitment to seeing the first one, I guess the studio execs reckoned that most would return to see the remaining two. Judging by the revenue figures, it seems to have been over 80%. The total gross box office for the trilogy in the US and worldwide were about $810 million and $3 billion respectively so well more than the estimated $750 million to make them. I gave up after the first film and caught up later. Once they have your money, it's impossible to get it back.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I've long maintained that deeply buried in The Hobbit trilogy was an excellent adaption of the novel as a single film. And I've discovered that I as right: A few years ago, I found a fan edit that almost seamlessly edits out most of the bloat (most significantly all of thr Azog stuff until the Battle of thr Five Armies as well as most of Tauriel), even if the Battle itself is still a bit too long. The edit's main focus was to include only material from the original novel, so that removed extraneous sections that I did enjoy like Radagast and Dol Guldur, although it did keep a small portion of the old Bilbo prologue. It's over four hours but I find that run length manageable, especially considering how much I love thr extended editions of The Lord of the Rings.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Yeah, I also enjoyed most of the Radagast and Dol Guldur sections so there's probably a good 4.5 hour single Hobbit movie lurking in there. That's a tad long but I'm not sure where it could be best divided into two halves - Bilbo encountering Smaug for the first time perhaps. I assume any edit might screw up the music cues badly though as the editor wouldn't have access to the separate music, foley, and dialogue tracks.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Actually, for the most part, the aforementioned fan edit's music cues work really well. The one exception is the Beorn sequence but the original of that portion is so oddly edited in the first place that it's unavoidable.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Yeah, I thought some elements of Jackson's adaptation of LotR were too thrill-oriented and over the top but I overlooked these given that the quality of the overall product. However, Jackson really overeged the pudding when it came to The Hobbit. Adding more and more ingredients subtracted from the quality of the whole in that case. I'll happily watch the former trilogy in the extended cut but I'm unwilling to make the time for the second, even in the theatrical cut. Perhaps there's a cutdown edit that would be acceptable but the tone would still be much different from the spirit of a book that was originally aimed at children. Just my opinion - if others dig stuff that I don't, fine - I can distract myself elsewhere. It's a commercialised mass-market entertainment product in the end. It either succeeds or fails financially, whatever its subjective artistic merit.

I remember watching the barrel escape sequence. They took a stealthy escape with sealed barrels and made it a ridiculous spectacle of fighting people off from open barrels. The way they did it there was no reason for them to even be in barrels, they would have fought more effectively and escaped faster just on foot. That entire sequence just looked stupid and made no sense.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

I remember watching the barrel escape sequence. They took a stealthy escape with sealed barrels and made it a ridiculous spectacle of fighting people off from open barrels. The way they did it there was no reason for them to even be in barrels, they would have fought more effectively and escaped faster just on foot. That entire sequence just looked stupid and made no sense.

Yeah, no edit can rescue that ridiculously over-the-top sequence. Jackson needed someone to remind him constantly not to dial any action up to 11. Much of the action stuff in his movies from King Kong onward is like that. There are occasional hints of it in LotR but he dialed it down most of the time in those films.

 

[Unicron]

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[Skywalker]

I was fully on-board with the original plan to adapt The Hobbit into two movies by folding in Gandalf's exploration of Dol Guldur and the White Council's attack there to drive out the Necromancer/Sauron. This was being developed as a prequel to PJ's LOTR so it made sense to incorporate those elements. But they lost the plot (literally!) when the decision was made to expand it from a duology to a trilogy.

All of the good fanedits I've seen have hovered around four hours, a bit long for one movie (though not too out of place with the LOTR extended editions) but for me that's just another indication that the original plan for two movies was the right one and they should have stuck to it.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I remember watching the barrel escape sequence. They took a stealthy escape with sealed barrels and made it a ridiculous spectacle of fighting people off from open barrels. The way they did it there was no reason for them to even be in barrels, they would have fought more effectively and escaped faster just on foot. That entire sequence just looked stupid and made no sense.

Yeah, I really loathed how they did that sequence.

Yeah, no edit can rescue that ridiculously over-the-top sequence. Jackson needed someone to remind him constantly not to dial any action up to 11. Much of the action stuff in his movies from King Kong onward is like that. There are occasional hints of it in LotR but he dialed it down most of the time in those films.

Actually, you'd be surprised. The fan edit I watched does a very good job of removing the fighting and general stupidity, while managing to restore most of the stealth of the situation.

I was fully on-board with the original plan to adapt The Hobbit into two movies by folding in Gandalf's exploration of Dol Guldur and the White Council's attack there to drive out the Necromancer/Sauron. This was being developed as a prequel to PJ's LOTR so it made sense to incorporate those elements. But they lost the plot (literally!) when the decision was made to expand it from a duology to a trilogy.

All of the good fanedits I've seen have hovered around four hours, a bit long for one movie (though not too out of place with the LOTR extended editions) but for me that's just another indication that the original plan for two movies was the right one and they should have stuck to it.

Yeah, I was onboard with two films after I thought about it, but I never liked the forced trilogy idea.

Again, the fan edit I watched has done a really good (albeit not quite perfect) job of recovering a proper adaptation of the novel. Yeah, it's long, but I don't care.

 

[Unicron]

I'm kind of in the same boat - I liked PJ's work on the LOTR trilogy but was never comfortable doing that with The Hobbit. Adding too many features means more can potentially go wrong.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Weren’t they originally talking to Guillermo Del Toro? His version probably would have been better.

 

[Relayer1]

The fan edit I watched does a very good job of removing the fighting and general stupidity, while managing to restore most of the stealth of the situation....Again, the fan edit I watched has done a really good (albeit not quite perfect) job of recovering a proper adaptation of the novel. Yeah, it's long, but I don't care.

I'd like to see that.

Which brings an old idea to mind - if the new TV series is a success, it might be interesting to re-edit The Hobbit and LOTR movies into a TV season like they did with Godfather some years back. Construct it chronologically, reinstate stuff lost in the original edit, rework it somewhat...