The Restaurant at the End of the Universe!
Kurtzman gets 5 1/2 year deal with 3 new shows in the works
- Thread starter RAMA
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The Restaurant at the End of the Universe!
Towards the end of the Berman-era, yes I agree. That was part of the problem with it.
TNG was Gene's baby initially. His creative desire. A little too much so IMO. Berman and Pillar came in and mainstreamed it (for the better IMO). I think the result was a nice mix.
By the time we got to Voyager, Enterprise and the TNG movies, the stories and productions were McDonaldized. Things were clearly stale. It was all business-as-usual. The inspiration that started this new era of Trek has clearly dried up.
Well, remember that Rick Berman was brought in by Paramount to effectively ride herd on Gene Roddenberry because of rodenberries reputation for ignoring corporate edicts. Rick Berman was hired to make sure that Gene Roddenberry followed any in all corporate edicts handed down from Paramount management.
People love to claim how chaotic the first season of Star Trek Discovery was with respect to the behind-the-scenes situation with the writers room; But compared to the first three seasons of TNGs behind the scenes situation with its writers room - Star Trek Discovery's writer's room could be characterized as fairly smooth with a couple of road bumps by comparison.
But considering what Gene Roddenberry had planned it's clear that Paramount did have a lot of input and had its way with respect to how the first few seasons of TNG were produced, and what type of stories they told. He ultimately had to be nearly forced to hire Patrick Stewart and the fact that after "The Naked Now" (It was GR's plan to remake one or two actual TOS scripts on TNG each season); and Paramount killed that plan almost immediately, It was clear Paramount execs did have a lot of input into the show; and they expected Rick Berman to keep Gene Roddenberry in line.
Yeah. As I said, I think you need a balance between business interests and creative interests.
While the studio was obviously having their say in TNG (or anything they spend money on for that matter), it's also very clear it was heavily born of Gene's nu ideas.
I'm not kissing Rodenberry's ass here. But I do think he had a vision for ST (good or bad), and he was willing to fight for it. Comparatively, Kurtzman strikes me as a corporate yes-man.
As I watch PIC and DISC, I can see the corporate notes from marketing research and trend chasing. Cramming it all in results in the very messy, and increasingly watered down product we're getting.
Given some of the stories we've seen with the "Short Treks" and the creation of "Lower Decks" itself was a big hole in that idea that he's just a corporate yes man. And yes while I'm sure Paramount doesn't mind a series aimed at youngers viewers, some of the aspects of The upcoming "Star Trek: Prodigy" are somewhat unique to Star Trek, and if you're talking about a company that has really run herd over various aspects of the franchise, again I don't see Kurtzman as a company "Yes" man given the types of Star Trek projects we've seen from his company.
The only reason the "Short Treks" stopped was the various COVID-19 safety protocols instituted for Canadian film and television production.
I haven't watched much of Lower Decks, so I can't comment much on it.
I will admit that it does seem like Prodigy and LD have more of a free creative drive behind them. I suspect it's more allowed for those because they're lower risk.
But these shows in their conception come from a very corporate mindset. It's like McDonalds; we've got something on the menu for everyone. There's offerings for kids. What if you want to eat something heathy? We've got that too; check out the salads. Burgers for the traditional fast food lovers. We've also got chicken and deserts!
For the ST universe, we have a comedy show. A kids show. An adult drama (allegedly). And now with SNW a show for the old school fans. Again, something for everyone. "It's a very complete package."
The funny thing is, SNW is on the menu for me. I'm in the demographic they're trying to appeal to with this one. It's a misguided attempt to try and appeal to the fans who like old Trek, but hate new Trek.
They're making it because Pike was a very popular character in Season 2 of DSC. I doubt it has nothing to do with appealing to the old fans.
It's appealing to all fans who liked Pike and Co. in Season 2.
Whenever a discussion turns to 1980s Gene and his vision, I remember that he absolutely hated The Wrath of Khan and wanted to do a City on the Edge of Forever ripoff with Spock killing Kennedy.
As an old school TOS fan who's been watching Star Trek first run on NBC since 1969 (I was six years old); I ended up liking TNG, DS9, and ENT, (although to this day I can't stand Star Trek: Voyager - I gave it one season plus the episode "The 37's" but I couldn't stand the lackluster writing I felt it had; I'm shopping at the bit to see "Star Trek: Strange New Worlds" - and I loved Anson Mount as Captain Christopher Pike in Star Trek Discovery season 2. For me that was some of the best Star Trek made since TOS Season 1.
And yes I have issues with some aspects of the production design, but even as an old school fan I realize they do have to update and modernize aspects to appeal to the modern audience of both Star Trek fans and the general public. In the end I just hope it holds true more to TOS than TNG in how it portrays The Starfleet characters and the Federation. If they go whole hog into the Gene Roddenberry "Utopian" type TNG portrayal, I'll be very disappointed. But again I liked what they did in Star Trek Discovery season 2, and the actual showrunner for SNW does seem to be an actual TOS fan, so I'm hopeful.
There was also something about Sarek and Amanda being murdered by Klingons in front of him
But why weren’t the new characters popular enough in Season 1 so that nobody could’ve cared less if Enterprise didn’t appear in the finale? Why weren’t the producers confident enough to focus on them further? Imagine if TNG had brought back a 135-year-old Spock for the entire Season 2 (or longer, since there was no time jump).
What are you talking about? The new characters were still the stars of Season 2, and they were still the stars in Season 3.
They focused on them in all 3 seasons.
Pike and Spock were central to Season 2 and they shouldn’t have been. Suppose Saru had assumed Pike’s place and Culber Spock’s (with an adjusted overall storyline)?
Each season of Discovery has (intentionally) had a different feel and focus, with some guest characters who seemed like main characters -- Captain Lorca, for example. As for Burnham, Saru, Culber, Stamets, et al., the producers are confident enough about them to be talking about a fifth season. SNW was just one of those things were a particular cast member just clicks with the audience. Fonzie wasn't supposed to be the most popular character on Happy Days, it just happened. That's pop culture for you. SNW wasn't planned, but Anson Mount's popularity and more than a little TOS nostalgia helped make it an obvious thing to do.
Burnham had the focus, Pike was secondary.
Spock was important because Burnham was important.
Oh please, Pike and Spock were central to STD S2 in the same way Scotty, Uhura, Sulu or Chekov were sometimes central to a TOS episode. They still weren't MAIN characters of the series; and they were not central to S1, S3, or S4 - so IDK where you get the idea that after 3 full aired Seasons; a 4th season that finished principal photography, is going into post production; and will air before 2021 ends, that Burnham and the other series leads "aren't popular enough."
Put down the crack pipe my friend, you've smoked enough.
We can’t compare an original character like Fonzie with a pre-sold one like Pike. SNW is about hedging your bets, basically: if you’re not confident enough to let DSC and its original characters become the phenomenon of the day, at least make a couple of other shows for people who cannot be drawn in by your DSC efforts, relying on core character-building accomplished by writers who came before and merely introducing a couple of riffs. TNG could’ve done that with many elements of TOS but didn’t.
Why wasn’t Saru secondary in Pike’s place? Also, the Red Angel plot would’ve worked without Spock, with Burnham possibly playing a role in Culber’s resurrection. The series would’ve furthered Piller’s principle of succeeding or failing by its original characters, so that thirty years from now fans would be asking for a Saru show.
BWAH-HAH-HAH!
You’re seriously comparing then-unknown characters with relatively minor roles like Scotty, Uhura, Sulu or Chekov with characters people want to see like Pike and Spock, whose season-long introduction gave a part of the audience what they wanted, including an entire new show that will prevent DSC from becoming TNG of the day — a series that had to go on by itself for five seasons with original characters before being supplemented by another show with original characters (except for Worf and a few guest stars) and eventually replaced by a third with original characters (a few guest stars aside)?
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As a long-time fan who only knew Pike from The Menagerie/The Cage, I wouldn't say he was "pre-sold". Anson Mount's performance sold me on the character.
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