What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[BoTWoT]

I honestly don't see how.

When Gillian forced her way to the ship, nobody had even the slightest doubt about the possible implications of removing someone like her from her time, and yet she was much more likely to have an impact than Edith who was going to die in a matter of minutes and not having any more effect whatsoever.

I prefer to think of the movies as their own canon. There's just too many inconsistencies with the rest of Trek lore across ALL the movies. It's all drama and action...for the sake of drama and action and not because it furthers any canon or storyline.

 

[Oddish]

I honestly don't see how.

When Gillian forced her way to the ship, nobody had even the slightest doubt about the possible implications of removing someone like her from her time, and yet she was much more likely to have an impact than Edith who was going to die in a matter of minutes and not having any more effect whatsoever.

That's very true. If I had to choose between the timeline risk of removing a woman who would be dead in hours, or removing one who might last a few decades... well, there's no question who to choose.

Of course, the butterfly effect could make either one extremely risky, but timelines in Star Trek are strangely durable. For instance, even though most of Zephram Cochrane's crew are killed by the Borg in "First Contact", the overall timeline is apparently unaffected.

 

[Kor]

I honestly don't see how.

When Gillian forced her way to the ship, nobody had even the slightest doubt about the possible implications of removing someone like her from her time, and yet she was much more likely to have an impact than Edith who was going to die in a matter of minutes and not having any more effect whatsoever.

Maybe the very event of Edith getting hit by the truck and dying in the road started some big movement around pedestrian and vehicle safety, which in some unpredictable way ended up contributing to the war effort several years later.

Kor

 

[Oddish]

Maybe it was simpler than that. Maybe the doctor who would have done the postmortem on her... didn't have to. So, he got home early that night. So he and his wife got a little... romantic. Nine months later, a child was born. 300 years later, that child's multi-great grandson stole Picard's would-be grandmother from his grandfather, before they could produce Picard's father. Zap, Picard never existed. Edward Jellico becomes the Enterprise captain instead and runs it like a prison ship.

 

[Paul755]

here’s one…

Wesley is WAY more annoying in S7 “Journeys End” than he is in S1. At least he has the excuse of being a teenage dweeb in S1. He’s just a little shit in S7.

 

[BoTWoT]

Maybe it was simpler than that. Maybe the doctor who would have done the postmortem on her... didn't have to. So, he got home early that night. So he and his wife got a little... romantic. Nine months later, a child was born. 300 years later, that child's multi-great grandson stole Picard's would-be grandmother from his grandfather, before they could produce Picard's father. Zap, Picard never existed. Edward Jellico becomes the Enterprise captain instead and runs it like a prison ship.

Exactly. When in doubt, JAMAHARON!

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

I think that ending would have presented the entire Star Trek universe as a dream, not just DS9.

Kor

Yes and it would be bold but also lazy. That's how some well known TV shows have ended and one in particular that I used to watch, and I was mad as hell for a week afterwards when that final episode was on air. It was St. Elsewhere. Great hospital show final episode, it was all a dream fuck you writers.

 

[Oddish]

Well, considering how many shows St. Elsewhere connected with ("Cheers" being a notable example), a whole lot of the TV universe wound up in that snowglobe as well.

 

[GNDN18]

But he is my Trekkie. I talk to him, I don't even know if he can hear me. 'Cause he sits there all day long in his own world, staring at that toy. What's he thinkin’ about?

 

[plynch]

Yes and it would be bold but also lazy. That's how some well known TV shows have ended and one in particular that I used to watch, and I was mad as hell for a week afterwards when that final episode was on air. It was St. Elsewhere. Great hospital show final episode, it was all a dream fuck you writers.

Loved it, awesome, cool, thought it was really neat. Same w/ Newhart. Hilarious.

The fact that Trek, a fanciful sci-fi universe would have sprung from the head of an oppressed African American writer made crazy by discrimination would have been very poignant, esp given the loving family life he wrote for his protagonist.

 

[oldtrekkie]

Loved it, awesome, cool, thought it was really neat. Same w/ Newhart. Hilarious.

The fact that Trek, a fanciful sci-fi universe would have sprung from the head of an oppressed African American writer made crazy by discrimination would have been very poignant, esp given the loving family life he wrote for his protagonist.

So that means that Benny Russel would have dreamt of a spinoff for TOS before there was any TOS...

 

[Mytran]

I honestly don't see how.

When Gillian forced her way to the ship, nobody had even the slightest doubt about the possible implications of removing someone like her from her time, and yet she was much more likely to have an impact than Edith who was going to die in a matter of minutes and not having any more effect whatsoever.

The same reason why they gave away the formula to transparent aluminium - i.e. because who's to say it didn't happen that way?
ST4 really leaned into the whole time loop thing and I think that Gillian's disappearance was a predestination paradox as well - in fact her absence in the 20th century is probably why the whales went extinct in the first place, because she wasn't around to champion their cause.
So just like with the transparent aluminium, Gillian was useful to Kirk's mission, therefore he took her along without additional thought.
Or maybe he'd figured out that the timeline is riddled with time loops and therefore they were always destined to do what they wanted anyway?

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

But he is my Trekkie. I talk to him, I don't even know if he can hear me. 'Cause he sits there all day long in his own world, staring at that toy. What's he thinkin’ about?

Loved it, awesome, cool, thought it was really neat. Same w/ Newhart. Hilarious.

The fact that Trek, a fanciful sci-fi universe would have sprung from the head of an oppressed African American writer made crazy by discrimination would have been very poignant, esp given the loving family life he wrote for his protagonist.

I really do get that but to me it I find it a tiny bit insulting that I spent x amount of time following these characters and getting attached to them only to find they were all a dream, or in the case of Star Trek all incarnations of it were a dream. I don't think I would have liked Star Trek any more had they done that.

 

[MAGolding]

The same reason why they gave away the formula to transparent aluminium - i.e. because who's to say it didn't happen that way?
ST4 really leaned into the whole time loop thing and I think that Gillian's disappearance was a predestination paradox as well - in fact her absence in the 20th century is probably why the whales went extinct in the first place, because she wasn't around to champion their cause.
So just like with the transparent aluminium, Gillian was useful to Kirk's mission, therefore he took her along without additional thought.
Or maybe he'd figured out that the timeline is riddled with time loops and therefore they were always destined to do what they wanted anyway?

Who's' to say it didn't happen that way?

I don't know, maybe someone who on Vulcan acquired a portable computer with the entire Federation databank including history, patents, and genealogy and put it somewhere on the bird of prey just to be prepared for anything which might happen on the voyage back to Earth? Someone who - once they went back in time to the past of a Federation planet -might consult such databbases before doing anything which might change history?

 

[MAGolding]

Yes and it would be bold but also lazy. That's how some well known TV shows have ended and one in particular that I used to watch, and I was mad as hell for a week afterwards when that final episode was on air. It was St. Elsewhere. Great hospital show final episode, it was all a dream fuck you writers.

Well, considering how many shows St. Elsewhere connected with ("Cheers" being a notable example), a whole lot of the TV universe wound up in that snowglobe as well.

Wasn't there a thread a while ago with a title like "Star Trek is in the MCU"? I believe that I discussed which tv programs Star Trek might be in the same universe as.

https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/star-trek-is-part-of-mcu.293148/

This site:

http://poobala.com/crossoverlist.html

Puts the various Star Trek programs in what it calls Group 10, which contains 17 programs, many of which are not Star Trek and belong to various genres.. It also puts St. Elsewhere and over a hundred other shows in what it calls Group 2.

This site

https://thetommywestphall.wordpress.com/

says that were were 441 shows in the Tommy Westhail Universe when last updated in 2016. Including the various Star Trek shows.

So if a person accepts the linking of the Star TRek shows with St. Elsewhere in a single shared universe, and accepts the theory that Tommy Westphail imagine d the events of St. Elsewhere, then they would have to accept that Star Trek was imagined by Tommy Westphail, regardles of whether it was also imagined by Benny Russell in 1950s NY.

YMMY.

And I think that I recently read something on the Internet suggesting that someprogram, mivie or game that I never heard of before was part of the same universe as Star Trek.

 

[Farscape One]

Or maybe we imagined everything here, and are really on an island in the ocean... not as humans, but as talking, clothed versions of various animals like squirrels, rhinos, and cats. And we use bells as currency.

And we all owe someone named Tom Nook money...

 

[Oddish]

That Westphail kid has a very vivid imagination...

 

[plynch]

I really do get that but to me it I find it a tiny bit insulting that I spent x amount of time following these characters and getting attached to them only to find they were all a dream, or in the case of Star Trek all incarnations of it were a dream. I don't think I would have liked Star Trek any more had they done that.

It is all a dream. It's all fiction.

So to write a story saying these stories were all stories? It's all good, to me. I think it would have been a pretty cool shout-out to sci-fi (yes, I am deliberately using that antiquated term) writers, the dreamers of dreams, esp those from the pulp era.

All my opinion and druthers, which obviously I did not get. No biggie.

 

[GNDN18]

It is all a dream. It's all fiction.

So to write a story saying these stories were all stories? It's all good, to me. I think it would have been a pretty cool shout-out to sci-fi (yes, I am deliberately using that antiquated term) writers, the dreamers of dreams, esp those from the pulp era.

All my opinion and druthers, which obviously I did not get. No biggie.

 

[cooleddie74]

Seinfeld is in the X-Files universe. That's pretty much been established thanks to the great Detective John Munch appearing in Mad About You, which established that Paul Reiser's character knew and shared Kramer's apartment before Jerry moved in across the hall.