Why does Harry Kim never get promoted?

[Oddish]

In the next 30 years, the older crew were going to need to retire or request lighter duties.

Hence, Voyager arguably should have sought to transition to a generational vessel sooner rather than later. But, only one couple ever even got married.

She found it very unlikely that no one in all that time wanted to just leave.

That's why I thought they should have lost a few people in "The 37's"... I call it the "Cult Leader Janeway" phenomenon.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Harry says "MAYBE EVEN" lieutenant commander. As in, he knows that it's within the realm of possibility that an officer six years and change out of academy can have that rank. He never declared it with absolute certainty; indeed, he gave lieutenant as his probable outcome.

And he's probably right about LT, though given that he's not moving up the chain of command at the same time, then I think that it's likely to have been a more recent development than you do (I'd say about two years as Harry and Paris swapping places after Thirty Days would have made sense and added some actual "punch" to that scenario).

I'm just suggesting that him being a LCDR is longshot, but if the dialogue had been something like:

KIM: No, no, I understand there's a command structure and that our circumstances are unique. But the fact is, I should have been promoted years ago, most of my classmates are probably Lieutenants by now... a few might even be Lieutenant Commanders.

Then my issue with his argument would be addressed.

 

[Oddish]

Any officer being a LCDR that quickly is a longshot. To achieve it, you have to (1) be incredibly competent, (2) do something to get noticed.

Honestly, given Harry's long list of accomplishments, including seven years as a senior officer and department head, aiding in the design of an astrometrics lab superior to Federation standards and helping to build a shuttlecraft that's better and faster than Starfleet issue, he could easily make LCDR upon returning to Earth. Especially if he wound up with a captain like Kirk or Riker ("WHAT?! You got a reprimand for banging an alien woman? What a load of crap!")

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Any officer being a LCDR that quickly is a longshot. To achieve it, you have to (1) be incredibly competent, (2) do something to get noticed.

I agree, but I think that it depends a lot on your billet as well.

In both Starfleet and in the RW, the billet of Second Officer mostly go to either the Navigator, the CICO/TAO (the "commander" of the second bridge/Tactical Officer) or the ChEng. In the RW, outside of this it's usually lieutenants that stand relief on either the bridge or CIC next, before it gets to the junior officers, even if they are Department Heads. In fact, there's a goof in that Ayala, the "Maquis Operations Officer" actually outranks Kim, and Deputy Security Chief and Ship's Navigator Ensign Rollins (originally intended to be and latterly at least a JG) at least has time on him.

Honestly, given Harry's long list of accomplishments, including seven years as a senior officer and department head, aiding in the design of an astrometrics lab superior to Federation standards and helping to build a shuttlecraft that's better and faster than Starfleet issue, he could easily make LCDR upon returning to Earth.

Lieutenant certainly. Lieutenant Commander as noted above... maybe.

I could buy it if say he transferred to the Challenger (or similar major starship) as Operations Manager and Second Officer, because that's the rank attached to those billets. But he'd be lucky to get a billet on something like the Rhode Island as a Lieutenant (unless he's jumped to XO).

 

[Oddish]

I agree with you, but billets on Federation starships seem kind of flexible. LaForge was a chief engineer both as an LT and LCDR, for instance. Ditto with Tuvok and security chief. And Tom was helmsman both as ENS and LTJG (no reason why Harry couldn't have been the same). Troi was LCDR and CDR, and Data likewise should have gotten his third solid pip (right after BoBW, for, you know, SAVING EARTH FROM THE FRICKIN' BORG).

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

I agree with you, but billets on Federation starships seem kind of flexible.

Up to a point. Which is why you've got to take into consideration the rank of the First Officer and sometimes Second Officer.

LaForge was a chief engineer both as an LT and LCDR, for instance.

LaForge replaced a LCDR, and was promoted to LCDR almost immediately (it took him six years to make JG and 8 to make ChEng), so that doesn't really help.

Ditto with Tuvok and security chief. And Tom was helmsman both as ENS and LTJG (no reason why Harry couldn't have been the same).

And even counting only his second Starfleet career, Tuvok had been in Starfleet for twenty-six years when he was promoted to LCDR, so that doesn't really help. As noted above, Tom is a good example for ENS to LT doing the same job, so promoting Kim during 2376 while Tom was demoted would have added some "punch" there (particularly if it was JG-LT so it would "stick").

Troi was LCDR and CDR, and Data likewise should have gotten his third solid pip (right after BoBW, for, you know, SAVING EARTH FROM THE FRICKIN' BORG).

Troi got her CMDR rank because she qualified outside of her role/billet so that's a little different. There are a couple times when Data could have been promoted (During Family, Chain of Command (acting XO), transfer to the E-E, Nemesis) however I agree with the general point that he should have been promoted at some point, with nearly twenty years of service in Starfleet by the time he signed on as Second Officer for the E-D (about twice as much as Will Riker to same period, and twice as much as Janeway had when she took command of Voyager).

 

[Oddish]

On wet-navy ships, especially big ones like aircraft carriers (which the Enterprise is the equivalent of), it's possible for the CO, XO, and commander of the air wing to all be four-striper captains. So certainly Data could have been a commander. He would simply have less seniority than Riker.

I think that he, Harry, and Travis on "Enterprise" (who had more space experience than the captain and chief engineer put together) all got shafted, promotion-wise.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

On wet-navy ships, especially big ones like aircraft carriers (which the Enterprise is the equivalent of), it's possible for the CO, XO, and commander of the air wing to all be four-striper captains. So certainly Data could have been a commander. He would simply have less seniority than Riker.

Agreed.

In fact, though unusual it actually possible IIRC for the ChEng (the most senior officer required to be Surface Warfare-qualified on super-carriers) and the Chief Medical Officer to also be Captains, although the latter is more likely to be a Commander apparently.

I think that he, Harry, and Travis on "Enterprise" (who had more space experience than the captain and chief engineer put together) all got shafted, promotion-wise.

IMO, Travis should have been the "Chief of the Boat" or "Coxswain", an experienced senior enlisted and practical advisor to the CO, who in the latter case also specialises in piloting.

I think that Data was shafted the least as him being promoted wouldn't actually change much if anything, whereas it might have for Travis and Harry.

 

[fireproof78]

Harry staying an Ensign isn’t so much to ask, is it?

It really is because there's no reason to it.

 

[Oddish]

IMO, Travis should have been the "Chief of the Boat" or "Coxswain", an experienced senior enlisted and practical advisor to the CO, who in the latter case also specialises in piloting.

That's actually a good idea.

It really is because there's no reason to it.

Precisely. The only reason given for it was "someone has to be the ensign", which is a simple matter to prove false. TNG had a commissioned ensign in its main cast for 12 out of 178 episodes. DS9 never had one at all.

Debunking the arguments people use to defend Harry's long ensignhood is almost embarrassingly easy.

 

[MacLeod]

If we were going to use the somone has to be an Ensign excuse then when Paris was demoted I would have promoted Harry to Lt. JG it would have changed the character dynamic between them and could have led to some interesting moments between them, but alas another missed opportunity.

 

[oldtrekkie]

I believe Tom Paris was a much more appreciated character than Harry Kim, there was even an important part of the fandom that wished he had been taken out of the show.

 

[Oddish]

Harry was too "vanilla" to offend anyone. I mean, what is there to remember about him? He played the clarinet, he was Tom's buddy, and he was never promoted.

Neelix might have been widely disliked, but he at least got noticed.

 

[oldtrekkie]

Harry was too "vanilla" to offend anyone. I mean, what is there to remember about him? He played the clarinet, he was Tom's buddy, and he was never promoted.

Neelix might have been widely disliked, but he at least got noticed.

You know that means that Harry could have been the perfect spy. Spies are best when no one notices them or remembers them, kinda the opposite of James Bond, but the latter is much more fun to watch.

 

[DonIago]

I do kind of wish they'd stuck to their guns and made him a Taresian(?), even though it would have made little or no sense.

 

[Oddish]

You know that means that Harry could have been the perfect spy. Spies are best when no one notices them or remembers them, kinda the opposite of James Bond, but the latter is much more fun to watch.

I do kind of wish they'd stuck to their guns and made him a Taresian(?), even though it would have made little or no sense.

Either of those possibilities (S31 spy or secret alien) would have done SOMETHING with the character...

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Either of those possibilities (S31 spy or secret alien) would have done SOMETHING with the character...

We're definately on the same page NOW. Harry could definately have been developed far better, although I'd argue that Chakotay probably got the "brass ring" in terms of development overall. I mean, Harry didn't get much, but at least one or two bits were vaguely decent... Chakotay got stereotypical, arguably racist dross and that was about it.

 

[DonIago]

I can slightly sympathize with the Chakotay situation given that TPTB presumably unintentionally hired a Native American consultant who in fact had no idea what he was talking about.

 

[Oddish]

They could have killed off or otherwise eliminated Harry, Kes, and Chakotay... and the series would not have been affected all that much.

Harry's lack of promotion, while ridiculous in and of itself, was also a symptom of a greater issue.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Harry's lack of promotion, while ridiculous in and of itself, was also a symptom of a greater issue.

Yeah, at least one.

I find it somewhat glaring given the premise that only three supporting characters, appeared in more than ten episodes (Seska, the Naomis and Icheb), compared to TNG where you had ten characters (admittedly not a huge difference), however six of those appeared in at least forty-five episodes and one of them (Carl David Burks as "Russel") is the fifth most regular appearing guest/day player on the Voyager list despite having nearly nines times more appearances on the Enterprise!