The Original Plan for Kes

[Weyoun 251]

That's a lot of strawmen in this argument and assumes a ton of negativity. Honestly, I'm just going to repeat of few points but it is clear to me that there is no way past this besides agree to disagree because the emotion has pushed so high as to be irrational and I'll not address every single "What if?" that is being presented. It's absurd.

As I noted in my post I said Kes would eventually go back to Ocampa. I see possibility there. I see growth there. I see potential and opening communication so that the Delta Quadrant isn't just the wasteland to the Federation but opportunity for exploration. But, I stand by my opinion, largely because there is a series coming out that is about exploring the Delta Quadrant. To me, it is a ridiculous assumption that writers will never so somewhere and therefor we should not make a decision regarding this character except to maintain status quo of keeping her on Voyager.

Sorry, I don't see it as Kes sidelined. I don't see her losing out. I see her taking experience, learning in the Alpha Quadrant and returning to Ocampa to teach. If that isn't growth and development and exploration then quite frankly I do not know what is.

I have to say, I am a fan of your idea (think it was you) that Kes going home could also lead to the Ocampans eventually joining the Fed.

I also figure that if Kes has the power to ping Voyager back home, then simply rock up back the other side of the Depta Quadrant that it wouldn't be a lot of effort to then simply appear on Earth as and when she pleases to then remain a part of the story/kick off a new tangent

 

[Lynx]

That's a lot of strawmen in this argument and assumes a ton of negativity. Honestly, I'm just going to repeat of few points but it is clear to me that there is no way past this besides agree to disagree because the emotion has pushed so high as to be irrational and I'll not address every single "What if?" that is being presented. It's absurd.

As I noted in my post I said Kes would eventually go back to Ocampa. I see possibility there. I see growth there. I see potential and opening communication so that the Delta Quadrant isn't just the wasteland to the Federation but opportunity for exploration. But, I stand by my opinion, largely because there is a series coming out that is about exploring the Delta Quadrant. To me, it is a ridiculous assumption that writers will never so somewhere and therefor we should not make a decision regarding this character except to maintain status quo of keeping her on Voyager.

Sorry, I don't see it as Kes sidelined. I don't see her losing out. I see her taking experience, learning in the Alpha Quadrant and returning to Ocampa to teach. If that isn't growth and development and exploration then quite frankly I do not know what is.

Sorry, but I have to agree even this time.

You're mentioning a series about exploring the Delta Quadrant. In that case it has to be about a ship on a mission which will take them hundreds of years.

When Voyager ended up at the Ocampa system, it was assumed that it would take them about 75 years or so to get home. Unless Doctor Drools has invented the Huxtaflux warp drive, it would take as long for a ship from Federation space to get there. Not exactly a wekend picture.

And even if the came up with such a series, I doubt that Ocampa would get much room in that, maybe one book or episode and whatever and there wooldn't be much Kes in it either. She would be sidelined, a sadly forgotten has-been which can be compared with Lucy Janeway, Stadi, or any other forgettable character in any Star Trek series.

I don't call it growth and exploration, just a sad waste of a great character.

 

[DonIago]

The novels already solved the distance/time issue by outfitting some of their ships with a stable quantum slipstream drive, so I consider that a moot point.

No idea whether the Ocampa have come into play in the novelverse, but I'd be surprised if they didn't at some point.

For someone who's so fond of Kes, you seem very closed to the idea that anything good could come of revisiting her.

 

[fireproof78]

Sorry, but I have to agree even this time.

You're mentioning a series about exploring the Delta Quadrant. In that case it has to be about a ship on a mission which will take them hundreds of years.

When Voyager ended up at the Ocampa system, it was assumed that it would take them about 75 years or so to get home. Unless Doctor Drools has invented the Huxtaflux warp drive, it would take as long for a ship from Federation space to get there. Not exactly a wekend picture.

And even if the came up with such a series, I doubt that Ocampa would get much room in that, maybe one book or episode and whatever and there wooldn't be much Kes in it either. She would be sidelined, a sadly forgotten has-been which can be compared with Lucy Janeway, Stadi, or any other forgettable character in any Star Trek series.

I don't call it growth and exploration, just a sad waste of a great character.

No it doesn't have to be this way in any of these options. This assumes negativity without any possibility of exploration. This also seems convinced that if Kes is not centered in the action then she is sidelined. In any case I cannot seem to wrap my head around these concepts or constant negativity.

With respect, we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[Lynx]

The novels already solved the distance/time issue by outfitting some of their ships with a stable quantum slipstream drive, so I consider that a moot point.

No idea whether the Ocampa have come into play in the novelverse, but I'd be surprised if they didn't at some point.

For someone who's so fond of Kes, you seem very closed to the idea that anything good could come of revisiting her.

Because the authors of those novels have such difficulties in thinking outside the box.

They are so wrapped up in that "The Gift and the s*** episode in season 6" that they have problems when it comes to thinking of a better solution for Kes than being dumped on the other side of the galaxy and no longer be a main character in the Star Trek universe.

I have to give Christie Golden, Heather Jarman and Kirsten beyer some credit for their attempts to erase and correct some of the worst damage to the character. But I want more than that.

And there's always the risk that some author with a flair for doom-and-gloom will destroy the character in the future.

As it is now, when I want to read a good Star Trek story with Kes as a main character, then I have to write it myself!

No it doesn't have to be this way in any of these options. This assumes negativity without any possibility of exploration. This also seems convinced that if Kes is not centered in the action then she is sidelined. In any case I cannot seem to wrap my head around these concepts or constant negativity.

With respect, we'll have to agree to disagree.

Well, then we can at least agree on something!

I really respect you and your opinions but obviously we are very far away from each other when it comes to Kes.

 

[fireproof78]

As it is now, when I want to read a good Star Trek story with Kes as a main character, then I have to write it myself!

So, you'll be like Tolkien or Lewis when it comes to Kes? That's how we got The Hobbit and Out on the Silent Planet is the two challenged each other to write stories they wanted to read.

 

[Lynx]

So, you'll be like Tolkien or Lewis when it comes to Kes? That's how we got The Hobbit and Out on the Silent Planet is the two challenged each other to write stories they wanted to read.

That's a comparision I like!
Due to a change of job, I might get more time to write in the near future.

 

[fireproof78]

That's a comparision I like!
Due to a change of job, I might get more time to write in the near future.

Well, it's one of my favorite inspiring ideas. So often we expect writers to have the same type of attention to detail as us fans but that's nearly impossible. My wife writes dedicated fan fiction in the Hobbit, but she spends weeks doing just research on Elvish, different events and pulling pieces together. Few professional writers have the same type of luxury of time. So, the stuff we find value in gets missed because of time. But, if you have it then it might be best option for you to capture what you like.

 

[Bornin1980something]

Well, it's one of my favorite inspiring ideas. So often we expect writers to have the same type of attention to detail as us fans but that's nearly impossible. My wife writes dedicated fan fiction in the Hobbit, but she spends weeks doing just research on Elvish, different events and pulling pieces together. Few professional writers have the same type of luxury of time. So, the stuff we find value in gets missed because of time. But, if you have it then it might be best option for you to capture what you like.

Did you know that Tolkien was never a professional writer? He was a professor of linguistics. He had been working on the Elvish language, and the mythology of Middle Earth, since the First World War, all in his free time. That way, he was never so constrained by the deadlines that TV writers are always up against.

 

[fireproof78]

Did you know that Tolkien was never a professional writer? He was a professor of linguistics. He had been working on the Elvish language, and the mythology of Middle Earth, since the First World War, all in his free time. That way, he was never so constrained by the deadlines that TV writers are always up against.

Yes, indeed. He worked on imaginary languages since he was a child, and then did translations from Old English to English, as well as some Greek to English. I love his letters.