What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Amasov, Jun 20, 2020.

  1. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Insert "Damn it, man, I'm a_________" meme here.
     
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  2. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

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    What's spurious is indulging the stupidity of a fictional character. Geordi is a cipher, he's nothing. He has no will, no desires, no ambition. He's a cardboard cut-out. He's like those mustache-twirling Villains of bad fiction. He has no substance. If he did he wouldn't be so cavalier about a lifetime of disability.
     
  3. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    At this point it is agree to disagree. This cipher line has been repeated now and I see nothing being added. I don't agree on any point, and find him both relatable, understandable and despite my loathing of TNG and Q episodes specifically it makes more sense that Picard in that episode.
     
  4. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

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    I agree... to disagree.
     
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  5. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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  6. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Admiral Admiral

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    In my mind this shouldn't be a "controversial opinion" but I think Picard does things much better than the TNG Movies did.

    Picard, IMO, is to TNG what the TOS Movies were to TOS.

    Picard is even more honest about its use of the TNG cast. If they're not needed and don't have anything to do, they're not there. Unlike the TNG Movies where technically they were there, but -- when you get down to it -- they might as well have not been there at all, a lot of the time.
     
  7. Unimatrix Q

    Unimatrix Q Commodore Commodore

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    OTE="Lord Garth, post: 13803664, member: 25139"]In my mind this shouldn't be a "controversial opinion" but I think Picard does things much better than the TNG Movies did.

    Picard, IMO, is to TNG what the TOS Movies were to TOS.

    Picard is even more honest about its use of the TNG cast. If they're not needed and don't have anything to do, they're not there. Unlike the TNG Movies where technically they were there, but -- when you get down to it -- they might as well have not been there at all, a lot of the time.[/QUOTE]

    Yep. And Jean Luc like he appeared in that show is way more in line with TNG Picard than the one seen in the movies imho.

    Action Picard was way more different to the character from TNG than what see saw in STP.
     
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  8. Farscape One

    Farscape One Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Movies and series are very different mediums. The changes made to the characters were essentially because it was movies.
     
  9. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

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    Yeah, but on the other hand, they drew a paycheck...
     
  10. Unimatrix Q

    Unimatrix Q Commodore Commodore

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    [QUTE="Farscape One, post: 13803707, member: 73863"]Movies and series are very different mediums. The changes made to the characters were essentially because it was movies.[/QUOTE]

    But why did Kirk, Spock and Bones and the rest of the original crew got to stay mostly the same for the original TOS movies and were handled way better than the TNG crew, if that was the case?

    It's actually one of the main reasons why i prefer the TOS movies, despite being more of a TNG fan.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2021
  11. eschaton

    eschaton Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think the TOS movies are better because they are more varied. I mean, TVH was a straight-up comedy. TUC involved aspects of a murder mystery and a spy movie. TFF - as bad as it was - had no villain, only an antagonist.

    In contrast, the TNG movies were more or less an attempt to catch lightening in a bottle and do TWOK over again. Except for Insurrection I guess, which was just a jumped-up TNG episode.
     
  12. plynch

    plynch Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    TVH is a lighthearted adventure, not what I would call straight up comedy.

    And I would argue Kirk and Spock are all over the map in portrayal cf to the series (where he varied a lot). Super cold in TMP to integrated person in II, zombie in IV, normalish? in V and VI.

    Kirk is also kind of cold and military in TMP and becomes the Khan-yelling rulebreaker from II on.
     
  13. Vger23

    Vger23 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, but these were logical character arcs based on where their characters had been during the "hiatus" and what they experienced through the course of the films.
     
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  14. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

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    We're told that Data doesn't have emotions again and again... but the truth is he's not played like someone without emotion, not at all. He's played like someone with Asperger's Syndrome.

    Ironically the kid in "Hero Worship" does a better impression of what Data is purported to be than Spiner himself. Is it misdirection or Spiner deliberately including emotion? I can't believe it's bad acting since Spiner is a pretty good actor.

    There's another possibility, maybe they realized that if they played Data without emotion people would have trouble relating to him, so they cheated and created this mishmash or a character that smiles all the time, changes his tone of voice depending on the circumstances, but is sort of awkward around people, and often seems like a fish out of water;... And keep making silly mistakes and silly assumptions.

    And when people who don't know better see this, they tell themselves: "This is what an android is supposed to be like."
     
  15. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Kirk really isn't the same in TMP or TWOK. The films are arguably about his midlife crisis and going through a lot of grief about getting old. I think the TOS crew was handled better for the most part, with Chekov and Scotty a lot of times getting the short end of the stick. But, I don't think they were mostly the same, especially in TMP.
    Mid life crisis will do that to a person. And watching your best friend die. And hearing your son die. Yeah, I can't imagine that does wonders for the psyche.
    Data is often played poorly, in my opinion. He is someone who struggles with understanding humans and yet desires their approval. On my effort to rewatch TNG and try to appreciate it The Ensigns of Command stood out because Data was asking Picard regarding performing and then Data becomes distracted because Picard leaves. WHAT?
     
  16. eschaton

    eschaton Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    There actually are people who have a particular damage to their brain where they can no longer feel emotions. These people make lots of decisions that we would consider irrational. For example, they might choose to drive dangerously and not buckle their seat belt because they are missing the fear that leads to a reflexive desire for self-preservation.

    When it comes down to it, in the real world, emotions and "logic" cannot be disentangled.
     
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  17. dupersuper

    dupersuper Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Again with the "rule breaker". In 2 and 3 sure: 2 we learn how he beat the Kobyashi Maru, 3 where he steals the Enterprise specifically to bring back Spock, but Kirk doesn't just go around breaking rules for kicks. He doesn't break any rules in 4 (is in fact going back to answer for his breaking of them in 3), none in 5 that I can think of, and none in 6 (except serving Romulan Ale, but that rule never seems to be enforced).
     
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  18. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

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    This means that Data's "psychology" is completely alien to ours, as we couldn't possibly function without emotions. And makes me wonder as to how he could even be admitted into Starfleet. You have an android of unknown psychology, allegedly without emotion and you're going to entrust him in a system based on punishment and reward? You don't even know if either of these will have any effect on him. Then again the way Starfleet works, it should fall apart in a matter of weeks.
     
  19. Grendelsbayne

    Grendelsbayne Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Or it's deliberately running closer to Spock, the breakout character from the previous show who was also constantly described as having no emotion even though that very clearly wasnt true.
     
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  20. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

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    I think Spock is a superior character.