The Original Plan for Kes

[Lynx]

At least Icheb's killer met justice. As far as we know, Armus is still down on that planet somewhere.

But we weren't faced with a five-minute 2010's-2020's morbid torture scene when Tasha Yar was killed off.
Although I have to admit that I didn't like that they killed off Tasha. She was a good character.
They could have had her thransferred to another ship or posting.

 

[Bornin1980something]

^What do think of the way The Orville handled it's main character departure?

 

[fireproof78]

The presentation doesn't change a character's death. Death has been treated as a part of the show for a long time. Some characters have more gruesome deaths than others. Unless Remmick, or Terrell's or other deaths take away from their episodes/films?

 

[DonIago]

How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life.

 

[Lynx]

^What do think of the way The Orville handled it's main character departure?

I suppose that you are referring to Alara Kitan.

I don't know why she left or was dumped so it's hard to come up with any statement. I thought she was an OK character.

But at least they didn't kill her off in some morbid torture scene or humiliated and destroyed the character by turning her into a disgusting, evil witch.

 

[fireproof78]

Apparently death must be handled with kid's gloves in this franchise.

ETA: And I'm not saying that death or torture scenes should be comfortable but I also don't think they are unnecessary in a dramatic presentation. And, to be blunt, Icheb's death was disturbing but not nearly as off putting as Remmick, David's death, Odo's torture by Garak, or even half the other stuff I've seen in other science fiction shows like Farscape or SG: 1.

 

[DonIago]

We could talk about SG-1's "Heroes"...

 

[fireproof78]

We could talk about SG-1's "Heroes"...

No, no death. It must be referenced only.

But, that episode and the promo leading up to it were intense. But, not for Star Trek.

 

[dupersuper]

That may be so. But, there's a message in it. Dying might suck, but we can all expect to do it. So make the most of the time you have, whether it's 9 years, or 90, or 190.

"You'll see it's all a show, keep 'em laughing as you go, just remember that the last laugh is on you..."

At least Icheb's killer met justice. As far as we know, Armus is still down on that planet somewhere.

Alone, quarantined and frustrated for his nigh-immortal existence. Vagazzel (or whatever her silly name was) got off easy.

But we weren't faced with a five-minute 2010's-2020's morbid torture scene when Tasha Yar was killed off.
Although I have to admit that I didn't like that they killed off Tasha. She was a good character.
They could have had her transferred to another ship or posting.

True, but I did like the Sela storyline it gave us.

to be blunt, Icheb's death was disturbing but not nearly as off putting as Remmick, David's death, Odo's torture by Garak, or even half the other stuff I've seen in other science fiction shows like Farscape or SG: 1.

To me David's death and Odo's torture came across as crucial to the story (and Remmicks just delightfully schlocky) where as Ichebs seemed far more gratuitous. I can't put my finger on why, it was certainly as crucial to 7's story as Davids was to Kirk and Odo's was to Garaks and the larger Dominion arc. It may well just be that I was ok with those because I liked the stories they were contributing to oh so very much more.

 

[Oddish]

Alone, quarantined and frustrated for his nigh-immortal existence. Vagazzel (or whatever her silly name was) got off easy.

Sooner or later, someone running from the authorities is probably gonna think, "Ooo, quarantined planet with warning beacons on it, and the only threat is a grumpy talking oil slick? Sounds like a perfect place to hide!"

 

[dupersuper]

Sooner or later, someone running from the authorities is probably gonna think, "Ooo, quarantined planet with warning beacons on it, and the only threat is a grumpy talking oil slick? Sounds like a perfect place to hide!"

To be fair: they could be right. How far can Armus travel? Would you be safe on the other side of the planet?

 

[Lynx]

True, but I did like the Sela storyline it gave us..

I never liked the Sela storyline. It was downright stupid. it had been better to keep Yar as a recurring character.

To me David's death and Odo's torture came across as crucial to the story (and Remmicks just delightfully schlocky) where as Ichebs seemed far more gratuitous. I can't put my finger on why, it was certainly as crucial to 7's story as Davids was to Kirk and Odo's was to Garaks and the larger Dominion arc. It may well just be that I was ok with those because I liked the stories they were contributing to oh so very much more.

David who? I can't remember
Odo's torture was horrible, a scene I hardly can't stand but at least the poor guy survived and Remmick did at least die fast. There was no five-minutes torture there.

 

[dupersuper]

David who? I can't remember

...Marcus...

 

[Lynx]

...Marcus...

Yes! Kirk's son. From one of the movies.
But he wasn't really a main character anhis death wasn't an out-drawn torture scene in slow-motion either.

 

[Oddish]

Still a pretty crap thing to do. Introduce Kirk's son in Star Trek II, then casually snuff him a movie later.

 

[fireproof78]

To me David's death and Odo's torture came across as crucial to the story (and Remmicks just delightfully schlocky) where as Ichebs seemed far more gratuitous. I can't put my finger on why, it was certainly as crucial to 7's story as Davids was to Kirk and Odo's was to Garaks and the larger Dominion arc. It may well just be that I was ok with those because I liked the stories they were contributing to oh so very much more.

Remmick's death as just cruel. Taken over by an alien and then slowly melted down and exploding. That's not OK to me. That's "Alien" level badness to me that has no place in Star Trek. Same with TWOK. Icheb's torture was part of the story, as much as David's to Kirk's.

 

[Lynx]

Still a pretty crap thing to do. Introduce Kirk's son in Star Trek II, then casually snuff him a movie later.

I agree with you here.

 

[fireproof78]

Yes! Kirk's son. From one of the movies.
But he wasn't really a main character anhis death wasn't an out-drawn torture scene in slow-motion either.

His death was awful. That knife blow is one of the most horrible things I've watched in Star Trek, at the time, and it still is unsettling. That said, I do not question Mr. Nimoy's choices or sanity in that story telling moment. Storytelling isn't just for us to feel comfortable.

 

[Oddish]

Remmick's death as just cruel. Taken over by an alien and then slowly melted down and exploding.

The "melted down and exploding" part wasn't Remmick dying. It was Remmick's death being avenged.

 

[fireproof78]

The "melted down and exploding" part wasn't Remmick dying. It was Remmick's death being avenged.

I suppose so. Still, rather unsettling though I imagine that was the point of the story. Which is more my point is that such things can be used to serve the story. Icheb is no different.