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The Fall of Joss Whedon

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A lot of today's "cancel culture" is rooted in genuine offense and legal wrong doing, but a lot of it also too subjective and takes on the feel of a roving lynch mob.



To certain extent, I believe there is some degree of correlation between sex parties and darker sex offences, though in the cases of Singer and Epstein, they seemingly used sex parties more of a mask for their more errant behaviour (rather than sex parties being the "gate way" to the non consensual stuff).

There's probably more, but Singer was accused of having sex with a seventeen year old where the age of consent was 18. The boy in question left home a year before, from a state where the age of consent was 16.

A problem with distance as much time.
 
It's why the lovey dovey aspects of socialism never works and Capitalism which is best system still often runs amuck.

"Lovey dovey" Socialism wedded with regulated Capitalism worked to a certain extent in most Western nations outside the US, while Capitalism left to run amuck leads to lower prosperity and growth overall, leading to wealth being concentrated unfairly and the Neoliberal experiment becomes as dysfunctional as the Commie Command Economy.
 
Having missed Buffy/Angel, before he joined the MCU, one of my early exposures to Whedon was his slagging on the movie Weird Science as "grotesque" due to its very premise. Now, there's certainly valid criticism to make of the movie, especially a glaring use of the f-word (the gay one), but his remarks struck me as not only mean-spirited, but more than a little dubious, seeing as he'd clearly been indulging in putting his own kink of petite women kicking butt onscreen for some time. A case of Protesting Too Much... which is often correlated with hypocrisy.
 
I think overall cancel culture is a good thing, assholes like Whedon deserve to be canceled, but I do think they go a bit overboard at times. If it comes out that someone is a horrible person, with a long history of abusive and/or offensive behavior then they deserve to be canceled, but I don't think it's fair when they want to ruin a persons life over one, relatively minor incident, or situations like what happened with James Gunn, where it was stuff that didn't actually harm anyone, that happened decades ago, that the person stopped doing and has apologized for repeatedly.
 
I think overall cancel culture is a good thing, assholes like Whedon deserve to be canceled, but I do think they go a bit overboard at times. If it comes out that someone is a horrible person, with a long history of abusive and/or offensive behavior then they deserve to be canceled, but I don't think it's fair when they want to ruin a persons life over one, relatively minor incident, or situations like what happened with James Gunn, where it was stuff that didn't actually harm anyone, that happened decades ago, that the person stopped doing and has apologized for repeatedly.
Usually when out of control people try to cancel someone, like RDJ for blackface in Tropic Thunder, it doesn't work
 
I think overall cancel culture is a good thing, assholes like Whedon deserve to be canceled, but I do think they go a bit overboard at times. If it comes out that someone is a horrible person, with a long history of abusive and/or offensive behavior then they deserve to be canceled, but I don't think it's fair when they want to ruin a persons life over one, relatively minor incident, or situations like what happened with James Gunn, where it was stuff that didn't actually harm anyone, that happened decades ago, that the person stopped doing and has apologized for repeatedly.
Technically what happened to Whedon shouldn't even be called Cancel Culture. They guy just got exposed for bad behavior. Of course nobody pays attention to how things are suppose to Technically be done. We got more labels than knowledge floating out their these days.
 
Technically what happened to Whedon shouldn't even be called Cancel Culture. They guy just got exposed for bad behavior. Of course nobody pays attention to how things are suppose to Technically be done. We got more labels than knowledge floating out their these days.
95% of what's called "cancel culture" is nothing of the sort. It's just a boogey man inflamed by the GOP.

I prefer LeVar Burton's term (as mentioned earlier in the thread): Consequence culture.
 
95% of what's called "cancel culture" is nothing of the sort. It's just a boogey man inflamed by the GOP.

I prefer LeVar Burton's term (as mentioned earlier in the thread): Consequence culture.
I think it's a little bit of all that but in the end it will be defined by people's own fears of it. It won't be about what is happening to rich and famous people but will it someday impact them. If our society wasn't so divided right now people would as a whole probably have a better handle on it but in this climate people are just going to look at it as mostly a tool by the other team to screw them over.
 
I think the cliche is mostly true. It's why everyone being busted just so happens to be people who are the best in the business. Whedon wasn't a brilliant writer despite his personal issues. Those issues helped make him that brilliant writer. Goes beyond art. It's next to impossible to find something great that wasn't given to us by a terrible person or a group of people exploiting another group of people. It's why the lovey dovey aspects of socialism never works and Capitalism which is best system still often runs amuck. It's why people have a history of looking the other way when terrible things happen in society. Why I think everyone does this but everyone also has certain lines they think people should not cross.
Sorry to go back to such an old post, but I wanted to address this.
I don't think this is true at all, there are plenty of people who have done great things weren't horrible people. We just remember the horrible people more, because that makes them more memorable than the people who fly under the radar.
There are a lot of great writers, actors, directors, painters, ect. out there who seem to genuinely decent people.
I do think the artistic people do tend to be a bit different though, just because artists and creators tend to look at the world a bit differently from people who aren't.
 
Sorry to go back to such an old post, but I wanted to address this.
I don't think this is true at all, there are plenty of people who have done great things weren't horrible people. We just remember the horrible people more, because that makes them more memorable than the people who fly under the radar.
There are a lot of great writers, actors, directors, painters, ect. out there who seem to genuinely decent people.
I do think the artistic people do tend to be a bit different though, just because artists and creators tend to look at the world a bit differently from people who aren't.
Well I don't really look at from the point of someone being a bad person. More like someone who has a lot of trauma and emotional damage. Who sometimes do bad things because of that trauma and emotional damage.
 
I don't think this is true at all, there are plenty of people who have done great things weren't horrible people...
There are a lot of great writers, actors, directors, painters, ect. out there who seem to genuinely decent people.

First, there is no correlation. The work is good or it's not.

Second, "plenty who seem to be genuinely decent" is meaningless. We have no way of knowing. Whedon "seemed to be genuinely decent" until he didn't.

Here's the really funny and entertaining thing about people: most of the folk who are disillusioned and decrying Whedon are going to go find new people whom they know nothing about to lionize and hold up as heroes and role models in exactly the same way. Exactly the same way. It's not their idols; it's them.
 
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First, there is no correlation. The work is good or it's not.
I'm honestly not sure how this is related to my post. I was just saying that there are plenty of people who weren't bad people who have produced great works. I never said there was any relationship either way, so I'm not sure what your point is.
Second, "plenty who seem to be genuinely decent" is meaningless. We have no way of knowing. Whedon "seemed to be genuinely decent" until he didn't.
Sure, but I find it hard to believe that every single person who has ever created a well regarded piece of art, or performance, or whatever is a Whedon, or Cosby, or Polanski.
 
Sure, but I find it hard to believe that every single person who has ever created a well regarded piece of art, or performance, or whatever is a Whedon, or Cosby, or Polanski.

Yes, and whatever you decide in any given instance as you assess the likelihood that someone whose work you admire is a "genuinely good person" is about as valid as a coin flip.
 
Harvey Weinstein was "fine" until it was publicly revealed he wasn't. I give "he/she seems perfectly nice, sweet and fine" with a grain of salt the size of a Death Star.
 
Remember: John Wayne Gacy won an award for his contributions to the community as a children's performer. So...yeah.
 
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My wife and I watch this religiously...

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22 year old postgrad student fangirl watching Buffy for the first time.

Which was great a year ago during quarantine when she started.

But as Whedon's "crimes" came to light I became nauseous that she might stop, because she is praising a monster.

It's been months since someone could have told her.

And no fucker has.

Her hundreds of youtube followers are keeping mum.

She is purposely left ignorant by bastards.

What bliss!
 
. . . to paraphrase Levar Burton, we now live in a consequence culture and people who have never had to be held responsible for their actions before, are now being held accountable.
The flipside is that people can have their reputations and their personal and professional lives destroyed because of mere allegations without a shred of solid evidence.

Of course, that's nothing new either. Remember Fatty Arbuckle?
 
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