Spoilers The Falcon and Winter Soldier discussion

[Skywalker]

I was a little confused with Sam's skill with the shield. While he was throwing it around with Bucky he caught it fine, but then when he was by himself he suddenly kept missing it.

Sam and Bucky didn't seem to be throwing the shield at full strength while they were talking. It almost seemed kind of like a game of catch, but with the shield instead of a baseball. But when Sam was training with the shield, he was throwing it at full strength, and that thing can really move when it's got some momentum behind it.

 

[Reverend]

Yeah, Bucky was teaching him how to control it, Sam was training himself to actually use it as a weapon.

As for Old Man Steve: I think it's just safe to conclude that Endgame broke it's own rules of time travel for the sake of dramatic effect. Best not put any more thought into it than that. That way lies complicated diagrams and people refusing to comprehend logic.

 

[Nightowl1701]

I guess the Contessa's the one who's going to give Walker the 'US Agent' moniker, as he's obviously not coming up with it himself.

For the first time in this series, I am legitimately worried that Sharon is evil. Turning to Batroc is an alarming move, though it also wouldn't be the first time that a hero hired him to do evil things as a cover for good things to happen elsewhere. Man I hope Sharon doesn't end up being the PB. That would just suck all the energy right out of this show for me, unless there ends up being some payoff I just don't see yet.

A reactor on another page brought up something I hadn't considered: What if Sharon is the Power Broker... but Sharon isn't really "Sharon" at all?

We know from both WandaVision and Far from Home that there are imposters among us (pun intended). And Sharon is acting very, very sus indeed...

 

[Xerxes82]

Given how quietly Zemo went at the end of things, I'm left to wonder if he isn't TRYING to get put in the Raft.

Where the Flag-Smashers will almost certainly wind up once Sam and Bucky catch them.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Excellent episode. Great character stuff for Sam and Bucky. La Contessa Valentina Allegra de la Fontaine was a complete surprise, Not a character I ever expected to see in the MCU. Too bad she doesn't Val's trademark streak of white hair.

 

[Nightowl1701]

There was a definite streak of purple in there, I noticed. At any rate, the Mouse has already got a white-streaked villainess on their roster, and her new movie's coming up next month.

 

[Jayson1]

I'm curious what The Raft is. Sounds like a prison boat but it's got to move advanced than that I would think. Plus wouldn't lots of governments be upset he wasn't returned to the prison he use to be in. Also does Zemo even get a lawyer and a day in court before he is locked into some new prison?

 

[Xerxes82]

I'm curious what The Raft is. Sounds like a prison boat but it's got to move advanced than that I would think. Plus wouldn't lots of governments be upset he wasn't returned to the prison he use to be in. Also does Demo even get a lawyer and a day in court before he is locked into some new prison?

The Raft is the superhuman prison last seen in Captain America: Civil War.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I'm curious what The Raft is. Sounds like a prison boat but it's got to move advanced than that I would think. Plus wouldn't lots of governments be upset he wasn't returned to the prison he use to be in. Also does Zemo even get a lawyer and a day in court before he is locked into some new prison?

Well that's what it is, prison ship for super-villains.
Zemo's a convicted criminal and an escaped convict. He's had a few days in court, no doubt. Think of it as a transfer.

 

[Tuskin38]

I'm curious what The Raft is. Sounds like a prison boat but it's got to move advanced than that I would think. Plus wouldn't lots of governments be upset he wasn't returned to the prison he use to be in. Also does Zemo even get a lawyer and a day in court before he is locked into some new prison?

We saw The Raft in Civil War.
https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Raft

 

[Samurai8472]

I'm curious what The Raft is. Sounds like a prison boat but it's got to move advanced than that I would think. Plus wouldn't lots of governments be upset he wasn't returned to the prison he use to be in. Also does Zemo even get a lawyer and a day in court before he is locked into some new prison?

We saw the raft in Captain America: Civil War

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

"Give me a break, Barton. I had no idea they'd put you here. Come on."
"Yeah, well, you knew they'd put us somewhere, Tony."
"Yeah, but not some Supermax floating ocean pokey, you know. This place is for maniacs, it's a place for–"
"Criminals. Criminals, Tony."

"Priority call from Secretary Ross, there's been a breach at the Raft prison."
―F.R.I.D.A.Y. to Tony Stark

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Saul]

We saw the Raft in Captain America Civil War.

 

[dupersuper]

The way they talk about Steve certainly makes it seem like there's not an 'old man Steve' they can pick-up the phone and call. So unless he dropped dead in the few months between Endgame and Falcon/Winter Soldier... Maybe he went back to his own reality.

I'll believe he's on the moon before I buy the alternate reality nonsense.

JLD is hardly a big enough name to try and surprise us with

She's not? How many Emmys and hit TV shows does some one need before you'd consider them a big enough name?

The Raft is the superhuman prison last seen in Captain America: Civil War.

If I'm not mistaken, it was also name dropped in Jessica Jones (some one gets sent there at the end of thee last episode).

 

[Sci]

I'm only two episodes in, and I don't particularly see why I'm supposed to think of the Flag Smashers as bad guys. So far they've... robbed a bank, and stolen medicine to give to marginalized people. I'm pretty sure we've seen every single Avenger commit worse crimes. And their stated goal is to end nationalism and unite the world under a sense of common brotherhood.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I'm only two episodes in, and I don't particularly see why I'm supposed to think of the Flag Smashers as bad guys. So far they've... robbed a bank, and stolen medicine to give to marginalized people. I'm pretty sure we've seen every single Avenger commit worse crimes. And their stated goal is to end nationalism and unite the world under a sense of common brotherhood.

3 billion people vanished.

The little countries fell apart.

The larger countries needed labour and consumers.

50 million foreigners were coaxed to come Save America by assuming the jobs and houses and possessions of the vanished.

An equilibrium was established.



Then every bugger blipped back.

2 billion people wanted their house, jobs and cars back, that some skeevy foreigners were squatting in.

Global_Repatriation_Council = GRC.

The newly arrived blips are in relocation camps awaiting repatriation, and the dirty foreigners are in different relocation camps with a lot more barbed wire awaiting deportation to countries that don't exist anymore.

The only way to import 50 million workers in a matter of weeks to months is to turn off all immigration policy and just let people walk in, with out needing any paperwork or visas.

The only way to deport 50 million workers in a mater of weeks to months is with is with dogs, steel capped boots and clubs.

Tricky.

 

[theenglish]

As usual, I arrive late to the discussion so this time I will try to comment on my personal reactions rather than try to respond to three pages of comments.

This episode solidified the importance of this series to the mythos of the MCU--IMO of course. I love that the writers resolved the US Agent cliffhanger from last week and then used the penultimate episode to address the thematic questions of the series. It provided resolutions to a lot of the issues addressed earlier in the series and provided important moments for Sam and Bucky to solidify their friendship. I would love to see them as brothers in law in future MCU productions.

It was a great decision to resolve so many of the outstanding elements in the penultimate episode so that the final episode can focus on the A-plot without worrying about the details addressed here. So often, movies get this wrong because of the constrained time elements. The heroes cement their friendship in the heat of the final battle no matter how contrived that is.

I also enjoyed how the series addresses the place of the Black American in contemporary society, It was nice to see Sam wrestling with the concept of what a modern day Captain America really is--and his respect for his friend during his conversation with Isiah.

This episode showed the difference between a movie and a series and what that extra time really means in the development of plot, characterization, and themes.

A+

 

[Relayer1]

You know I can't buy trying to make Karli seem sympathetic when she is burning three people alive and making supervillain rants while plotting to murder people.

It's a misstep in my opinion, and one of very few in a fine series.

The ambiguous nature of whether the antagonists actually were "bad guys" was a plus point.

I suppose you could still argue their case, but it's much harder now.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

JLD is not in the IMDB cast list for the movie. They're done filming and JLD is hardly a big enough name to try and surprise us with

Except they did surprise us with her. She wasn't listed for this series, either, and the marketing spent last week deliberately hyping up a big name suprise cameo. That was her.

Also, this was clearly reported on by Vanity Fair. IE, a highly respected hollywood trade journal with real sources. Vanity Fair is traditionally far more reliable than IMDB, which operates almost entirely on official press releases combined with hearsay and occassionally wishful thinking until after a movie has been released.

It's a misstep in my opinion, and one of very few in a fine series.

The ambiguous nature of whether the antagonists actually were "bad guys" was a plus point.

I suppose you could still argue their case, but it's much harder now.

Eh... I don't think it was ever the point to question whether they were actually bad guys. I think Karli is the flip side of John Walker. One is power/prestige without real guiding principles, the other principle without power/prestige. Both become steadily more derailed in their attempts to take what they don't have from others so as to fulfill their destiny because both, at their core, have lifted themselves above the rest of humanity. And they're both losing what power/principles they had to begin with because of their obsessive delusions of grandeur.

They're the walking embodiment of everything Zemo has been saying about the danger of icons, and they're both attempting to replace Steve Rogers as the new and improved icon for a new world, but with opposite concepts of what that world should be. In other words, they were both always supposed to be bad guys - just human bad guys born from simple human failures rather than grandiose or uncompromising evil.

 

[FPAlpha]

I can't help but wonder if Sam telling Torres to keep the Falcon suit was a reference to the fact that he is the second Falcon in the comics, and a hint that he could be headed that way too.

I think's that's a given. Sam will become the new Captain America, new suit and all and we have seen that Torres is a capable operative and technically adapt so it would only be a logical step.

Sam and Bucky didn't seem to be throwing the shield at full strength while they were talking. It almost seemed kind of like a game of catch, but with the shield instead of a baseball. But when Sam was training with the shield, he was throwing it at full strength, and that thing can really move when it's got some momentum behind it.

When Sam ducked down after the shield came back full force i thought good reaction - that looked like it could take a person's head off ( and in an R rated,Quention Tarantino directed movie it would )

I'm only two episodes in, and I don't particularly see why I'm supposed to think of the Flag Smashers as bad guys. So far they've... robbed a bank, and stolen medicine to give to marginalized people. I'm pretty sure we've seen every single Avenger commit worse crimes. And their stated goal is to end nationalism and unite the world under a sense of common brotherhood.

Keep watching, that's exactly the issue and makes for good villains when they can be seen as being right actually. MCU Killmonger had some really good points and motivations for example.

 

[Relayer1]

Eh... I don't think it was ever the point to question whether they were actually bad guys.

Not my take.

The Flag Smashers wanted something different from the powers that be. The status quo had already broken down and they just wanted a different way forward.