Spoilers The Falcon and Winter Soldier discussion

[TREK_GOD_1]

A complaint I always hear people make about serialized shows where the season is basically one extended length movie is that everything is so focused on the story and action and there is no room for smaller character developing episodes that tend to pop up frequently with episodic shows. Well, I'd say this episode proves all them wrong, we get a solid character based episode as the penultimate episode of a six episode season of what is largely an action thriller show and it was just as engaging and enjoyable as the action packed episodes have been.

Excellent observation; the problem is two fold--one, the teasers were leaning in the direction of it being an 80s action comedy, which was misleading to say the least (and was a disservice to a series that is not some punch, joke and blast fest), and two, some fans wanted the series to be the aforementioned 80s action comedy, completely forgetting who Sam Wilson & Bucky Barnes were/are as established in the movies. In fact, some social media reviewers were whining about this series most powerful and relevant moments such as the introduction of Isaiah Bradley's story, the subsequent police harassment scenes, and the introspective moments with the leads. I'm certain the whining will continue/ramp up after they see "Truth" unload exactly that into the MC/TVU.

And, damn, Julia Louis-Dreyfus was really impressive in the relatively small amount of screen time she had. Even though I recognized her right away, by the time the scene was done I was very surprised this is someone I largely associate with comedic roles. In just a few short moments I completely forgot this is the same woman I've thought of for the better part of a decade as Elaine from Seinfeld. A really impressive and well done job.

Yes--ordinarily, one would think she would be out of her element, but she delivered a fairly sinister character in less than 4 minutes of screen time.

 

[KennyB]

Elaine fucking Benes--I was thinking it was gonna be Sam Rockwell. I did not see that coming.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Elaine fucking Benes--I was thinking it was gonna be Sam Rockwell. I did not see that coming.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Sam Rockwell turn up in Armor Wars.

 

[Anwar]

Excellent observation; the problem is two fold--one, the teasers were leaning in the direction of it being an 80s action comedy, which was misleading to say the least (and was a disservice to a series that is not some punch, joke and blast fest)

Pretty sure that was deliberate. A lot of things were clearly misleading about the trailers so we'd be more surprised by this show.

 

[matthunter]

A complaint I always hear people make about serialized shows where the season is basically one extended length movie is that everything is so focused on the story and action and there is no room for smaller character developing episodes that tend to pop up frequently with episodic shows.

Even in the movies, this can be achieved - how long did the Avenger's party and Hawkeye's safehouse scenes last in Age of Ultron?

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I must have missed that dialogue in the episode. I always assumed from Endgame that Bucky knew Steve so well he didn't have to say it.

It happened during Sam and Bucky's practice with the shield.

The way they talk about Steve certainly makes it seem like there's not an 'old man Steve' they can pick-up the phone and call. So unless he dropped dead in the few months between Endgame and Falcon/Winter Soldier... Maybe he went back to his own reality.

Quite possibly, but at this point, I don't think we'll ever get a straight answer about what happened to old man Steve.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Sam Rockwell turn up in Armor Wars.

In fact, I will be disappointed if he doesn't show up.

 

[StCoop]

I'm seeing a lot of people saying that JLD is in 'Black Widow' as well. Is that something that's been confirmed anywhere or just an assumption?

Interestingly, if it is true that would mean in a Covid-free world this would have been intended as her second appearance.

 

[David cgc]

I just want to remark on how much it delights me every time Captain America’s nephews call him “Uncle Sam.”

 

[Grendelsbayne]

I'm seeing a lot of people saying that JLD is in 'Black Widow' as well. Is that something that's been confirmed anywhere or just an assumption?

Interestingly, if it is true that would mean in a Covid-free world this would have been intended as her second appearance.

It's reported by Vanity Fair (I linked it upthread) so it should be true.

 

[thribs]

Poor Walker. He was really screwed over. Let’s hope he does better in the Thunderbolts.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Poor Walker. He was really screwed over. Let’s hope he does better in the Thunderbolts.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Pretty sure that was deliberate. A lot of things were clearly misleading about the trailers so we'd be more surprised by this show.

That's why I said the teaser was a disservice, considering how the show actually flows / the way people are reacting to it, which I hope continues into a second season or movie.

Poor Walker. He was really screwed over. Let’s hope he does better in the Thunderbolts.

Eh?

 

[Tuskin38]

Ignore them.

 

[thribs]

That's why I said the teaser was a disservice, considering how the show actually flows / the way people are reacting to it, which I hope continues into a second season or movie.



Eh?

The person he met is a Thunderbolt recruiter. We were supposed to have met her already in Black Widow but the movie was delayed.

 

[Relayer1]

This episode was a bit of a let down. Unless fixing boats is your thing. Then you'll love it. But for the penultimate episode it really took it's foot off the gas.

I loved it.

This show is best when not much is happening. Character pieces, background detail, space to breathe.

You can't do that as well in a two hour movie. This is an opportunity.

 

[Noname Given]

Wow - another really great episode. Delivered on both the action and characterization across the board.

What really struck me was the Isaiah Bradley/Steve Rogers story parallels and how utterly different things turned out for each (and kudos to the series writing staff for that.)

- Steve Rogers. Given the Super Soldier Serum+Vita Rays treatment and made into a "Super Soldier". U.S. General doesn't believe one Super Soldier is significant so relegated to being a War Bond sales prop at the start. He finds out about a Hydra POW camp where U.S. soldiers are being experimented on, and when the Army won't go in works with Howard Stark to get in and single-handedly goes in, destroys the facility, brings everyone out.

Result: Steve gets a medal and the brass see one Super Soldier can do a lot. He's sent back into the field with support and helps the Allies win the war. Becomes a war hero and a symbol of "what's best" in America.

Isaiah Bradley. Picked (along with a number of other Black soldiers) to be a test subject for different attempts to recreate the 'success' of Erskine's first Super Soldier experiment. These subjects all have varying level of response to/success of the procedure (Isaiah Bradley seems to have turned out exactly the same way Steve Rogers did post treatment.) Even unstable all the candidates are sent on missions for the furtherance of U.S. goals. Over time many are captured and held in a camp whose location in known - but the discussion of the Brass is how to destroy the camp to remove the evidence of the new "Super Soldier" program.

Isaiah Bradley finds out about this; somehow goes in alone and brings everyone out.

Result: The Super Soldier program continues. Isaiah Bradley and those rescued are either killed or locked away so no one will ever know about their continuation of the program. Worse, Isaiah Bradley is locked away and subjected to further tests for decades so the U.S. can find out why the treatment worked so well on him - and EVERYTHING about him and the program are buried forever. After rescuing his comrades in arms he spends the next 30 years in a medical prison as a lab rat/test subject.

They really pulled no punches WRT the racial aspect of this series storyline; and it really makes a statement while still presenting an interesting and relevant and entertaining story about all these characters.

Looking forward to see how they wrap up the main story of the series, but I also love they've added other interesting storylines/threads that can be built on in future MCU series and films.

 

[Saul]

I loved it.

This show is best when not much is happening. Character pieces, background detail, space to breathe.

You can't do that as well in a two hour movie. This is an opportunity.

I agree, but I think for the second to last episode it could have had more going on.
I could easily see this as an episode 3 or 4.

 

[Anwar]

And then there's Sharon. She helps out Steve and the Avengers, breaks the law and she doesn't get to go home at all, having to become the kind of criminal she probably dealt with during her SHIELD and CIA days.

This episode, I call it "Tie up all loose ends before the big climax". The Wakanda stuff, Zemo, John as the official Cap, Sam's confidence issues, him and Bucky clashing, Sam's family business have all been dealt with.

All that's left now is the final battle with the Flag Smashers and potentially what will happen to Walker now that he's been cut loose and feels he still has to properly avenge Lamar. And maybe the Power Broker.

 

[FPAlpha]

Quite possibly, but at this point, I don't think we'll ever get a straight answer about what happened to old man Steve.


In fact, I will be disappointed if he doesn't show up.

At this point Steve is a story device, a sort of benchmark to check your own actions against. Either he really died as old man Steve between Endgame and the show ( could happen) or the rest of the Avengers have an ironclad agreement to not even attempt to contact him, even in the biggest crisis - for them Steve essentially died in the last battle against Thanos. Steve has done more than his duty at great personal cost, he got his reward and dream ending so his story is done and the book is closed ( for the character as well as the actor).

 

[JD]

Power Broker watch: Sharon seemingly helped the release of Georges Batroc. I think that weighs heavily in favor that she's indeed the Power Broker.

Yeah, that was the impression I got as well, although I wouldn't put it past them to have some kind of twist in there, so she is the Power Broker, but is still a good guy.

Though really, I thought the show would really go there in the corruption and show Walker being commended for what he did and maybe get another medal. Having him be punished (even if it's rather light) was a welcome surprise.

Yeah, I had the same expectation going in, so I was pleasantly surprised he actually was punished.
This was a nice character driven episode, which also cleared the way for what will probably be a very action heavy finale.
I've noticed a lot of shows big action shows will do that kind of thing now, have a quiter more character focused penultimate episode, and then have big, action heavy finale.
The big Buck & Sam vs Walker fight was awesome.
Having the whole community show up to help fix up the boat was a nice way to show the kind of support Sam has.
It was nice to see Isaiah Bradley again, and I can see why Sam would want to hear more of his story before making his final decision about taking up the shield as the new Cap.
I was a little confused with Sam's skill with the shield. While he was throwing it around with Bucky he caught it fine, but then when he was by himself he suddenly kept missing it.
I was a little disappointed that Julia Louis-Dreyfus was the cameo they were promoting. I like her and I know she's pretty big deal, but the way they were talking I was expecting an even bigger star. I was expecting someone at the level of Robert Redford or Anthony Hopkins, and I don't really see Dreyfus as being there.
If Karli has gone so far as the ally with people like Batroc, then it's safe to say she's pretty much lost all ambiguity and is a full on evil.