Jake Sisko - Completely Unlikeable
- Thread starter spinagogue
- Start date
But Jake wasn't like that in the 1st 2 seasons; he was a decent and productive character. Even in the 3rd season where the writing angle came about, it still seemed his character would grow. For me, something more useful to Sisko's journey and the rest of the series.
I would say it's the opposite. He was "just there" in the first two seasons. You'd get random "Jake and Nog are doing mischief on the promenade" or "Jake and Nog are on a double date" or "Benjamin and Jake are talking about Jennifer" scenes. None of them very riveting. Worldbuilding if you're feeling generous, filler if not.
In later seasons, he didn't get many episodes, but he got some very strong ones. Like the two I already mentionned: The Visitor and Nor the Battle to the Strong.
The stories told with Jake in the beginning didn't make him unlikeable, The Vistor - a fourth season episode made the character pathetic, but by the end of it there's a path to make young man become a strong one. It's something these two characters can work on as the journey continued on. The fifth season episode wasn't interesting to me, he does ended up doing a heroic thing, I never saw Jake as a coward - the episode felt out of character and totally random. Were viewers ever interested in what Jake was writing and did the writing on the series made it a staple point for the series? No. What Jake writes if the path is to be a writer should've had some impact to Sisko's journey because they came on board the series together.
If there wasn't much of a value to Jake's path to over things to come to the Sisko character then why should the viewer care? Sisko's growth of a character should've reflected his son's and vis versa, the lack of measures made for Jake was not satisfying for me and I thought incorporating some strengths for the character to be more involved like architecture or engineering could've helped. Probably likeable.
In the 90s? It's hard to say. However, contemporary viewers have asked Behr and Wolfe directly what Anselm was about, and Wolfe himself felt the need to identify what his career would have been like in the documentary.
Jake was coming out of his quarters one day when a bunch of Bajoran teenagers caught him and began throwing eggs at him.
"Ow! Stop it!" Jake shouted. "Quit egging me!"
The oldest of the teens laughed. "Well, who should we egg?"
Jake's reply: "EGG NOG!!"
More serious, though... who would have liked it if Jake and Ezri had wound up a thing, instead of her and Bashir? I think they would have been a very cute couple, and it would have put Sisko in an interesting position...
"Ow! Stop it!" Jake shouted. "Quit egging me!"
The oldest of the teens laughed. "Well, who should we egg?"
Jake's reply: "EGG NOG!!"
More serious, though... who would have liked it if Jake and Ezri had wound up a thing, instead of her and Bashir? I think they would have been a very cute couple, and it would have put Sisko in an interesting position...
Jake was coming out of his quarters one day when a bunch of Bajoran teenagers caught him and began throwing eggs at him.
"Ow! Stop it!" Jake shouted. "Quit egging me!"
The oldest of the teens laughed. "Well, who should we egg?"
Jake's reply: "EGG NOG!!"
More serious, though... who would have liked it if Jake and Ezri had wound up a thing, instead of her and Bashir? I think they would have been a very cute couple, and it would have put Sisko in an interesting position...
I don't believe Jake and Ezri could be an item. How many teens when they starting thinking about romance think about their parents' co-workers, even if they are somewhat close in age?
I don't believe Jake and Ezri could be an item. How many teens when they starting thinking about romance think about their parents' co-workers, even if they are somewhat close in age?
In our world? Not many. But in Trek, romance can follow some interesting new paths ("Before and After" on Voyager, for instance). If Dax had a crush on Sisko (and "Fascination" suggests she did), there was at least the thought. Jake could represent someone like him, but closer to Ezri's age.
Ezri/Worf was "let's get this bad idea out of our system and move on". Ezri/Bashir was "Ok, they're together, does anyone give a damn... anyone at all?" Ezri/Jake would have at least been interesting, even if it didn't go anywhere.
Jake was a grown man when Ezri entered the picture. As for "Fascinations" I always suspected Dax had deeper feelings for Sisko; Jadzia felt like a foster mother to Jake to me and I would've welcomed that trinity of the new space family.
According to the Memory Alpha timeline, Jake was 20 during season 7. I still think it would be unusual to be thinking about parent's friends and coworkers as objects of affection. And it would be odd for Ezri to reciprocate. The station is big and busy by that time, there must be other people to date.
I didn't care about the pairing of Bashir and Ezri because the chemistry wasn't there; there was this THING to match people up on DS9, and most of it fell flat IMO. As for Jake, I would've like to see more development on Mardah and where that relationship could've gone. There was a lot there to make Jake likeable.
Because it was so conventional. An Ezri/Jake ship, and all the conflict that would likely have come with it, would have required some screen time.
Since they didn't have that time, the "safe" (i.e. boring) pairing was what they went with. But would anyone have really cared if it hadn't happened?
Since they didn't have that time, the "safe" (i.e. boring) pairing was what they went with. But would anyone have really cared if it hadn't happened?
I didn't find it objectionable, and not all romances have to be amazing. Besides, if you go by the novelverse, it doesn't ultimately work out anyhow.
Kira/Bareil wasn't all that either, but I didn't find it objectionable. It seemed to make them happy, which is the important thing.
Kira/Bareil wasn't all that either, but I didn't find it objectionable. It seemed to make them happy, which is the important thing.
I would rather that pairing because in a sense Ezri was finding herself like a young woman should, the same for Jake who of course was a young man. I agree this approach is interesting to me because it puts the Jake character back into relevance and be involved into stories where Ezri was. Ezri would've been better off connecting to characters her own age range than the older men and women on board the station. Bashir was just wrong.
starfleet.com has a birth year estimate for Ezri that would make her 21 during season 7. I think that makes her too young. Usually a counseling program today is a 3-year graduate program following a 4-year bachelor's degree. That would have made her only 14 entering college! It has happened, but Ezri doesn't strike me as the amazing prodigy type. Even allowing for a degree to be entered early and waiving the final year of her training, I'd still say she's more like 23 or 24 during season 7. Compared to Jake, there's a huge difference in maturity between 20 and living in the same station with Dad vs. 23 and completed college and mostly completed a graduate program and living away from home for 5 to 6 years.
I didn't like the Ezri-Bashir pairing either. Bashir would have been quite a bit older. Memory Alpha estimates he was 35 in season 7. My estimate agrees: 4 years undergrad, 4 years med school and 3 years residency, if he started at 17 because he was gifted he was 28 during season 1, or 35 during season 7. He's really robbing the cradle. I suppose it's better than Serena, but that's a low bar. The chemistry seemed a bit forced too. Ezri seems patronizing about the games, I mean models, he makes and the combat-simulation holosuite programs. I'd give it about 6 months before she called it off, less if they were no longer on the same station. But I can see a really great scene of Bashir visiting O'Brien on Earth and them getting drunk together while Bashir unloaded about how sad it was.
I didn't like the Ezri-Bashir pairing either. Bashir would have been quite a bit older. Memory Alpha estimates he was 35 in season 7. My estimate agrees: 4 years undergrad, 4 years med school and 3 years residency, if he started at 17 because he was gifted he was 28 during season 1, or 35 during season 7. He's really robbing the cradle. I suppose it's better than Serena, but that's a low bar. The chemistry seemed a bit forced too. Ezri seems patronizing about the games, I mean models, he makes and the combat-simulation holosuite programs. I'd give it about 6 months before she called it off, less if they were no longer on the same station. But I can see a really great scene of Bashir visiting O'Brien on Earth and them getting drunk together while Bashir unloaded about how sad it was.
Okay, I had my doubts about their ages being comparable, but I checked MA and it does hold up. That said, I have some trouble imagining Ezri Dax being into Jake.
But if they'd established Ezri Tigan in earlier episodes, it might have been interesting to build something with Jake only to have her Joining throw a wrench (or not!) into that.
In any case, Ezri may chronologically be 21, but once she's Joined I'm not sure it's reasonable to say she's at that same age in terms of her maturity.
But if they'd established Ezri Tigan in earlier episodes, it might have been interesting to build something with Jake only to have her Joining throw a wrench (or not!) into that.
In any case, Ezri may chronologically be 21, but once she's Joined I'm not sure it's reasonable to say she's at that same age in terms of her maturity.
Similar threads
