I blew the s off of canons with a cannon.
Why the hate for Disco?
- Thread starter David Hanley
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I don't see how that's different from magic crystals letting you go to warp. I mean, we put those things on wind chimes!
Then there's Picard's plant-based planetary defense system.
Oh, come off it. It's weird and a little campy, but it's clearly part of a long tradition of weird and slightly campy such ideas in Star Trek -- a talking lava monster attacking miners, a giant green hand grabbing the Enterprise, Abraham-Lincoln-as-seated-in-his-memorial floating in space, space jellyfish encountering the Enterprise-D, a giant evil crystal eating planets, a baby space monster treating the Enterprise-D like the ship is its mother, etc etc etc.
And it perfectly fits in with the Coppelians' original ethos of trying to be nonviolent (from before Sutra was exposed to the Admonition and turned violent).
Why must the two be mutually exclusive?
They're not! It's just my subjective personal preference to literalize Spock's isolation through him not having siblings. But that's just my interpretation; others are just as valid, and clearly the actual owners of Star Trek have chosen a different direction.
Your opinion is objectively wrong. ViacomCBS owns Star Trek, and ViacomCBS gets to dictate what happens within the narrative of Star Trek, and ViacomCBS has made it clear that the Paramount+ shows all take place in the same continuity as TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT, and films 1 through 10.
Now, you are certainly welcome to pretend it's an alternate universe in your own head for your own purposes of enjoyment. But objectively speaking, it's all the same continuity whether us audience members like it or not.
Generally speaking: not as well written.
When I was a kid (70s) we had "matter-antimatter reaction" and "warp drive." Very scientific.
If they had now only said "mycelial network," ok. But "mushrooms" is just such a dopey sounding word. 'Shrooms, man. These gross, rubbery things in my yard. It just seems dumb to these ears.
And I am on record elsewhere here freely acknowledging deck by deck gravity and inertial dampers are exceedingly unlikely. Even a space navy. If we don't kill ourselves as a species, eventually we won't need ships to access everywhere.
With DSC, it's just that they chose shrooms to power the thing. I wish they'd come up with a different magic, one-of-a-kind drive. Oh well. It's not a super-biggie to me.
If they had now only said "mycelial network," ok. But "mushrooms" is just such a dopey sounding word. 'Shrooms, man. These gross, rubbery things in my yard. It just seems dumb to these ears.
And I am on record elsewhere here freely acknowledging deck by deck gravity and inertial dampers are exceedingly unlikely. Even a space navy. If we don't kill ourselves as a species, eventually we won't need ships to access everywhere.
With DSC, it's just that they chose shrooms to power the thing. I wish they'd come up with a different magic, one-of-a-kind drive. Oh well. It's not a super-biggie to me.
This is what it comes down to for me. In Trek, it's not so much about scientific feasibility as intrusiveness into suspension of disbelief.
Giant space amoeba: too dopey.
Warp salamanders: too dopey.
Mushroom drive: too dopey.
Lots of people here -- avowed Star Trek fans! -- can't get into TOS because of stuff like "Space Lincoln" and "Apollo's giant hand." So it’s not like this is some unfair criteria being applied to Disco.
If Space Lincoln genuinely bothers you then you take life way too seriously and you don't do Trek right.
Meh, to me it's just recognizing what elements are a part of Star Trek. If some are not for you then that's fine. It's just fair game as far as taking Trek seriously, which I don't too often. But, that doesn't mean I have to watch it either. Certainly Q is too dopey for me.
Space Lincoln is amazing. TOS knew how to hook you with a tease.
Part of loving Star Trek and being a mature individual is knowing that every single series made some incredible bad calls from time to time.
IMHO, this is okay. But I love Trek in spite of, not because of, these things. IMHO Trek is better when it's grounded and internally consistent rather than being cheesy and comic-book esque. But YYMV.
IMHO, this is okay. But I love Trek in spite of, not because of, these things. IMHO Trek is better when it's grounded and internally consistent rather than being cheesy and comic-book esque. But YYMV.
Part of loving Trek, for me, is recognizing that not all Trek is going to be for me. Would I prefer it to be more grounded and internally consistent? Certainly and the books did a lot to build that consistency. But, the comic book nature is a part of Trek's DNA so I expect it to pop up again.
I wonder if that is part of the off putting nature of Discovery. It takes itself very seriously in a way that past Treks would do but in a different mixture. Discovery is something that takes itself incredibly seriously, has a lot of real world parallels of what the characters are going through without demonstrated easy answers at the end of the episode. TOS, in particular, would have a different feel to it, that even if the characters are struggling they immediately step right back in to the fray and solve the problem.
Kind of reminds me of early season 1 Farscape vs. later seasons. Farscape started out with a very otherworldly, sometimes goofy, approach to different worlds and aliens. And Crichton would be there to throw out a quip. But, later on, there was a lot more darker episodes and Crichton was less quippy and more somber. I wonder if Discovery had started out less serious and moved in to that territory then it would have had a less difficult time being accepted as Star Trek.
Kind of reminds me of early season 1 Farscape vs. later seasons. Farscape started out with a very otherworldly, sometimes goofy, approach to different worlds and aliens. And Crichton would be there to throw out a quip. But, later on, there was a lot more darker episodes and Crichton was less quippy and more somber. I wonder if Discovery had started out less serious and moved in to that territory then it would have had a less difficult time being accepted as Star Trek.
That's part of the problem with the spore drive for me. It's a jarring, fantastical element in a show that, as you say, takes itself quite seriously. I don't mind the Space Amoeba, because it's a strange, goofy conceit in a colorful show that regularly embraced strange, goofy conceits. It's at home in TOS in a way that the spore drive isn't in Discovery.
Similarly, quippy Georgiou seemed tonally at odds with a lot of stuff happening around her. It's like she walked in from another show. After Fuller left, I get the vibe there wasn't consensus on what this show was going to be, so it ended up something of a hodgepodge.
Tone issues aside, I'd argue that Discovery offers the same easy answers TOS did, only now the end of the episode is the end of the season. That's one thing I've found disappointing about it.
I can see it being jarring. It's why episodes of TOS like "City on the Edge of Forever" stand out so diametrically from the rest.
Now, I don't think Discovery is as tonally off as it is for others. I think Georgiou's quips are perfectly fine in line with her character, especially as a sarcastic
who deals with uncomfortable feelings through sarcasm. But, I don't think DSC has easy answers. I think it tries to wrap up neatly but still leaves a lot of open air. It's very ambiguous as to its resolution, and not clear cut right/wrong answer.
I can see it being jarring. It's why episodes of TOS like "City on the Edge of Forever" stand out so diametrically from the rest.
Now, I don't think Discovery is as tonally off as it is for others. I think Georgiou's quips are perfectly fine in line with her character, especially as a sarcastic
But, I don't think DSC has easy answers. I think it tries to wrap up neatly but still leaves a lot of open air. It's very ambiguous as to its resolution, and not clear cut right/wrong answer.
Yeah, in fairness to the show, I do think serialization presents a big challenge for a franchise that traditionally liked to alternate drama and whimsy in individual episodes. What does that look like now? I thought the Mudd episode managed it pretty well, but that was basically treated as a one-off -- a brief return to episodic in a serialized season. I don't doubt it's tricky to weave light-hearted fun into a serialized narrative without it feeling out of place -- especially for a show that loves escalating stakes as much as Discovery.
I do too. I think the show suffered a bit because the tone shifted from all the BTS shifts, as well as the simple fact it was trying to do something a little bit different than past Treks. So, I am hoping for that light heartedness to be woven and maybe it will with the new setting.
I think The Magicians showed how this could be done well. That show was pretty goddamned dark, with subplots involving rape, suicide attempts, child molestation, etc. Yet at the same time they had several musical episodes! The key was basically that even though it was serialized, it wasn't afraid to have plots of the week which had their own identifiable beginnings, middles, and ends. Discovery itself stepped back from the serialization cliff starting in the second season, so I don't think a similar variance of tone would be impossible.
I don't agree that all critique is negative and I am able to distinguish the difference between people like Nerdrotic/Doomcock/MechaRandom42/Critical Drinker and people like Plinkett/Red Letter Media. I think it's possible to like and hate the productions of those who currently own the "Star Trek" brand. It's important to remember that Star Trek is and always has been a product that inspires the imagination of its consumer. Sometimes it's laboratory quality and sometimes it's mixed with talc, chalk and god knows what else, sometimes it's full of MSGs and additives, sometimes it's organically produced and hand-crafted by monks. Sometimes it's Shakespeare and sometimes it's Sunset Beach, and it's ok that there's a difference, but there IS a difference.
Even if it is Sunset Beach that is what Trek has been in the past and it is OK if it is still such now. That doesn't make it less Trek.
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