It doesn't make sense. If Janeway was unhappy with Kim, she could have sent him to go scrub Neelix's pots or something instead of working on the bridge. So she really should have promoted him after 2-3 years. It's not like spending a long time as a Lt. Cdr. or Cdr., that's almost to be expected. The Ensign to Lieutenant JG promotion is almost automatic if you manage to keep breathing for two years without really screwing up. It doesn't necessarily have to come with a job change, if there are limited jobs available, it just means you're eligible for a Lt. JG job if one comes up. Janeway was really screwing up Kim's career by denying him a routine promotion. Any captain is going to look at his record and think he must have screwed up but somehow escaped being booted out of the service, and looked for some other lieutenant to have aboard. Kim is probably going to leave Starfleet and go pilot freighters.
Why does Harry Kim never get promoted?
- Thread starter B. L.
- Start date
And there was no... logical... reason for it. None at all. Every argument I've seen defending it just collapses when you think about it.
There are other stupid things in Trek that can be explained away. The whole "Ishka seduces the Grand Nagus and BANG, Female Ferengi get totally equal rights" was ridiculous, but Star Trek was a progressive show so that was pretty much inevitable. And the whole "Will Riker stays first officer turning down his own ship multiple times" is equally silly, but the fans liked both Patrick Stewart and Jonathan Frakes, so to keep them both around... yeah, I get it. But this was just plain stupidity. There was NOTHING Harry did as an ensign that he couldn't have done as a JG.
There are other stupid things in Trek that can be explained away. The whole "Ishka seduces the Grand Nagus and BANG, Female Ferengi get totally equal rights" was ridiculous, but Star Trek was a progressive show so that was pretty much inevitable. And the whole "Will Riker stays first officer turning down his own ship multiple times" is equally silly, but the fans liked both Patrick Stewart and Jonathan Frakes, so to keep them both around... yeah, I get it. But this was just plain stupidity. There was NOTHING Harry did as an ensign that he couldn't have done as a JG.
I know if I had the same job for seven+ years without a promotion or other clear recognition that I'd be pretty demoralized. I guess being allowed to command the ship is a form of recognition, but why give an ensign that level of authority but not the pip to back it up?
Well, there are companies that simply don't do much in the way of promotions, where 90-95 % of personnel doesn't receive one after several years of work, where in fact promotions only occur if a higher position opens up, and I'm talking positions they only hire candidates with a master degree for. I worked for one. The result indeed is that a lot of people leave after 3-5 years.... but the company has never amended its policy so apparently the concept works for them.
If it is known within Starfleet that some captains are particularly stingy with giving promotions and such (and Janeway is one of them) it might not be held against Harry Kim. Of course, it also wouldn't be a disadvantage for him if Janeway for som reason simply couldn't promote an unlimited number of people without approval from Starfleet HQ.
If it is known within Starfleet that some captains are particularly stingy with giving promotions and such (and Janeway is one of them) it might not be held against Harry Kim. Of course, it also wouldn't be a disadvantage for him if Janeway for som reason simply couldn't promote an unlimited number of people without approval from Starfleet HQ.
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It's always been a minor bugbear of mine in Star Trek that pretty much EVERYBODY get promoted, which isn't true to life. Whenever a character returns after a period of time it seems like they've all made Captain at the very least just by virtue of sticking around. Maybe longevity in Star Fleet has more value than in real life.
But isn't it true to some extent for the US army, where apparently, there's an 'up or out' policy?
How about a temporal paradox?
Janeway sees a good future that she does not want to mes up.
Year 10 on Voyager, in the Beta Quadrant, and Harry is an Ensign.
Janeway sees a good future that she does not want to mes up.
Year 10 on Voyager, in the Beta Quadrant, and Harry is an Ensign.
I've no idea but I'm sure there's some senior officers that would take exception at your implication
I get that it's a way to show reverence and a plot device to show how, for example, Admiral McCoys career continued in it's excellence after we last saw him but surely some characters stagnate or are happy being Lieutenant.
it is in the Italian armies: after a given set of years in a given rank you are automatically promoted to the next. It’s also habit to promote you at the moment of retirement, but I don’t think that’s a rule, only a way to gift the parting officer with a bigger pension.
Oh, I know there are companies like that; I just wouldn't want to work for them for too long, and from the sound of it, neither did a lot of people who actually worked at the one you referenced.
People like to feel that their hard work and/or loyalty is being rewarded in some manner. Raises are good of course, but it's nice to get a new title too.I'm trying to imagine Janeway doing personnel evaluations with Chakotay (did she ever do them at all?) and arguing that she wants to promote Kim but simply can't, even though it's not as though anybody important would even know if she did.
Seriously, even if Janeway couldn't promote him under normal circumstances, Voyager is operating under circumstances that are decidedly abnormal. She doesn't need to worry about Admiral StingyAboutPromotions asking what she thought she was doing giving an ensign a promotion.
I can't imagine it either. It might go something like...
JANEWAY: "Tom has done quite well lately. I think we should restore him to lieutenant."
CHAKOTAY: "Agreed. Ensign Kim has also done well, and he's way overdue. Maybe you should promote him as well."
And... that's all I can imagine. I can't imagine Janeway producing any intelligent or rational argument for reinstating Tom for 18 months of excellent service, while overlooking Harry's 6 years. Because no such argument exists!
He does get promoted. He becomes the Captain of the Rhode Island
Ha, well, we don't know that to be sure unless it's in one of the Voyager books that he did not.
Kim was a dutiful ensign, that was great at that station. I imagine that there simply was not anyone else that could take his place. Janeway was working with a lot of nothing after the disaster killed most of her officers. She was left having to make Maquis into officers! I can recall one episode where she went out with some other ensigns and they were just flat awful. Y'all remember that episode? One of the guys killed a symbiotic life form and the other one couldn't navigate very well.
True, but that timeline occured when Voyager spent 23 years getting home. Harry's career probably unfolded differently when it took only 7. Though realistically speaking, he almost certainly did not remain an ensign for the rest of his career, as many of our number like to gleefully speculate. My guess is that Starfleet awarded him two grades, which is appropriate for 7 years seniority. Instead of getting a hollow pip, he got a second gold one.
And no one needed to. There are eight Starfleet characters over the three 24th century era series who received higher rank without changing jobs. Harry could have EASILY continued to run Ops with a ○● on his collar.
This is a fair point. Perhaps it is because he refused to wear Brent Spiner's old shoes (delta flyers episode 1 podcast).
Well they should have killed his character off then and there. With the messiest, most disgusting redshirt style death imaginable.
I agree. I really thought he was a red shirt from the very beginning, even expecting him to die in Caretaker. Then something weird happened where they had an episode trying to make him seem like he had superhuman memory when he said "i remember my mothers womb" or something along those lines. So, I think they wanted to develop hiim into something larger, but realized it just wasn't going to work..and they kept him around anyway. I've heard rumors that it was because he was voted by people magazine "most beautiful actors" or something along those lines and that is why they kept him, but I think that's just conjecture.Well they should have killed his character off then and there. With the messiest, most disgusting redshirt style death imaginable.
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