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Data's Day
Frame of Mind
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Data's Day
Frame of Mind
A Matter of Time
Galaxy's Child
The Nth Degree
Great, Overlooked TNG Episodes
- Thread starter KevinGrem
- Start date
Wow, its been like 5 years since I posted on this thread.
I don't think I mentioned: "The Last Outpost". This winds up one of my most rewatched episodes in the sporadic and increasingly scarce times I rewatch these older episodes.
I know issues that people have with this episode: that it's a bit preachy and the Ferengi were not a successful "villain", but I liked the careful first contact of the first 20 minutes, and of course the thought of a long lost Portal of the T'Kon Empire being around. The final message is pretty clear: We outgrew this type of thinking that was common in the greedy 80s. Still a worthwhile message I think.
RAMA
I don't think I mentioned: "The Last Outpost". This winds up one of my most rewatched episodes in the sporadic and increasingly scarce times I rewatch these older episodes.
I know issues that people have with this episode: that it's a bit preachy and the Ferengi were not a successful "villain", but I liked the careful first contact of the first 20 minutes, and of course the thought of a long lost Portal of the T'Kon Empire being around. The final message is pretty clear: We outgrew this type of thinking that was common in the greedy 80s. Still a worthwhile message I think.
RAMA
Agree to that. It's only when the planet surface action begins (about halfway into the ep) that it gets really cheesy. The first half of the episode actually has a great buildup of slowly revealing more about (and of) the Ferengi.
Who Watches the Watchers.
As an atheist child and teenager growing up surrounded by christianity and going to catholic school, TNG (and, to a lesser extent, the episodes of TOS I had seen) was a breath of fresh air to me, and this episode had a crucial role.
When all adults in your life contradict your (un)beliefs, fiction can help tell you you're not insane and that not believing in deities isn't just a "phase" you're going through.
"Horrifying… Dr. Barron, your report describes how rational these people are. Millennia ago, they abandoned their belief in the supernatural. Now you are asking me to sabotage that achievement, to send them back into the dark ages of superstition and ignorance and fear? No!"
Still one of my favourite Picard quote, alongside the Drumhead one. And Troi gets a great line as well:
"Are you sure this is what he wants? That's the problem with believing in a supreme being: trying to determine what he wants."
As an atheist child and teenager growing up surrounded by christianity and going to catholic school, TNG (and, to a lesser extent, the episodes of TOS I had seen) was a breath of fresh air to me, and this episode had a crucial role.
When all adults in your life contradict your (un)beliefs, fiction can help tell you you're not insane and that not believing in deities isn't just a "phase" you're going through.
"Horrifying… Dr. Barron, your report describes how rational these people are. Millennia ago, they abandoned their belief in the supernatural. Now you are asking me to sabotage that achievement, to send them back into the dark ages of superstition and ignorance and fear? No!"
Still one of my favourite Picard quote, alongside the Drumhead one. And Troi gets a great line as well:
"Are you sure this is what he wants? That's the problem with believing in a supreme being: trying to determine what he wants."
Such a great episode and such a controversial and brave take - yet it didn't seem to cause a fuss at all. Star Trek at its most scientific and rational - something that in my humble opinion was lost.
Three good episodes of S1? I have 3 that I think stand out: Home Soil, Where no One has Gone Before and... Justice.
Justice gets unfairly maligned: there is quite a bit of pathos (all of Beverly's scenes), with an interesting ethical quandary at the core, and I think this "There can be no justice so long as laws are absolute. Even life itself is an exercise in exceptions." is a good takeaway.
Visually, questionable choices were made, and some of the guest actors are not very good. But the script isn't bad.
Justice gets unfairly maligned: there is quite a bit of pathos (all of Beverly's scenes), with an interesting ethical quandary at the core, and I think this "There can be no justice so long as laws are absolute. Even life itself is an exercise in exceptions." is a good takeaway.
Visually, questionable choices were made, and some of the guest actors are not very good. But the script isn't bad.
Mine would be Where No One has Gone Before, The Battle and then maybe Datalore - cheesy as it is.
If I were to pick a top 3 of season 1...
"Where No One Has Gone Before"
"Heart of Glory"
"The Arsenal of Freedom"
In no order except production order.
"Where No One Has Gone Before"
"Heart of Glory"
"The Arsenal of Freedom"
In no order except production order.
Top 3 of Season 1 for me:
Encounter at Farpoint but I wonder if that is meant to be excluded.
Excluding Encounter at Farpoint, top 3:
The Arsenal of Freedom (the action ep)
Symbiosis ( the dilemma ep)
We'll Always Have Paris ( the science/tech exploration of how weird nature is)
I do love Conspiracy for its creepy factor and violence so I could be easily talked into swapping that one out for any of the above.
Encounter at Farpoint but I wonder if that is meant to be excluded.
Excluding Encounter at Farpoint, top 3:
The Arsenal of Freedom (the action ep)
Symbiosis ( the dilemma ep)
We'll Always Have Paris ( the science/tech exploration of how weird nature is)
I do love Conspiracy for its creepy factor and violence so I could be easily talked into swapping that one out for any of the above.
A great episode, yes. Though it feels like one that wouldn't have been made quite the same way only a few years later. In DS9 or VOY, or possibly even in late TNG itself (see the religious struggles of Worf), they probably would have slipped in some line of one of the ent-D characters how scientific progress doesn't necessarily preclude a belief in some religion .. (I don't mean to say that it would have been the right thing to do, just that the 'fashion' changed to become more 'inclusive' of such viewpoints).
I never saw "Who Watches the Watchers" as particularly exclusive of native religions or even personal religions. The Federation is secular but with a freedom of religion policy so that Picard did not want himself and his crew and ship to BECOME a religion did not mean that the same Picard in this episode would not be also welcoming and tolerant of the religious beliefs of Worf, Ensign Ro, the Klingons, the Bajorans, the Vulcans ... we see him do so later with no feeling of inconsistency (unless it's just me?).
I often wonder why people see this episode as some kind of anti-religious stand that I am not sure was ever even originally intended by the writers and producers.
Oh, I don't think it is exclusive of those feelings either. It's just that I have the feeling that a few years down the road, the writers would have felt more compelled to also include a few of those lines, a kind of 'inclusive correctness', so to speak.
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Roddenberry himself was very anti-religion:
“For most people, religion is nothing more than a substitute for a malfunctioning brain. If people need religion, ignore them and maybe they will ignore you, and you can go on with your life. It wasn't until I was beginning to do Star Trek that the subject of religion arose. What brought it up was that people were saying that I would have a chaplain on board the Enterprise. I replied, "No, we don't.”
― Gene Roddenberry
I don't think TNG has any issues with spirituality however, as Picard's answer to Data about death shows, but is against organised religion in all its forms.
"Horrifying… Dr. Barron, your report describes how rational these people are. Millennia ago, they abandoned their belief in the supernatural. Now you are asking me to sabotage that achievement, to send them back into the dark ages of superstition and ignorance and fear? No!"
FWIW, I'm not sure that I can agree with Roddenberry on this subject. And I'm still not sure about how I feel about spirituality vs religious belief. Ultimately, Star Trek would present a far more nuanced view of religion after Roddenberry died.
Love seeing Mike and Rich Evans talk TNG. But I think they're overly harsh on S1. There's certainly a lot wrong with it, but there's also quite a bit good in it. I could easily pick 3 episodes in that season, I hope they continue with the rest of the series with these "Top 3" picks. It's just fun to see these two talk Star Trek like this.
Got ya. You are probably right about the later years but I got the feeling that DS9 writers genuinely had an affection for the religious beliefs of the Bajorans and were deeply respectful of Kira and all the others like Kai Opaka and Vedek Bareil...
and then used Kai Winn and the Vorta's reactions toward the Founders to keep expressing the negative aspects of religion.
I definitely personally disagree with Roddenberry on religion and I always interpreted Picard's speech as a rare glimpse of his OWN beliefs while he would be happy to be tolerant of all religious beliefs as he is actively working hard not to BE a religious icon to the proto-Vulcans (I don't remember their species name).
I am unsure how one can be spiritual without religious belief myself, but if you want you can DM me or we could continue this on a general discussion board so as not to detract from the TNG flow here.
I can find much to enjoy in Seasons 1 and 2. Encounter at Farpoint is very much a kind of comfort food for me and I could say the same of many episodes from those seasons. Even the worst I find watchable in a kind of 'Spock's Brain' way.
So many to choose from...
I really like:
11001001
Where No One Has Gone Before
Pen Pals
Where Silence Has Lease
The Schizoid Man
When the Bough Breaks
So many to choose from...
I really like:
11001001
Where No One Has Gone Before
Pen Pals
Where Silence Has Lease
The Schizoid Man
When the Bough Breaks
I think "Too Short A Season" is very underrated/overlooked, but then, I'm a fan of (most of) TNG's first two seasons. Everyone always goes on about how bad the make-up is, but if you can look beyond that it's a solid episode with a somewhat solid plot, especially for TNG's first season where things are admittedly... weird sometimes (I like weird, but not "Code Of Honor" levels of horrible, mind). Sure it kinda features the Badmiral trope but in this case it's not nearly as bad as it could get on TNG sometimes.
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