I watched the first episode of Terror of the Autons recently, and not only does it introduce The Master, but another Time Lord pops up to warn The Doctor that The Master's on Earth.
Time Lords and Gallifrey in Classic Who
- Thread starter JD
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More precisely, a nameless Time Lord appeared in "Genesis" and was later named Valyes in the audios (after previously being named Ferain in the novel Lungbarrow).
"Valyes" is an odd name for a Time Lord. It sounds too much like "Valeyard," which is confusing. At first I thought you were referring to the Valeyard by an affectionate nickname.
Can't say that thought ever crossed my mind while listening to the audios.
If I had to give the Valeyard an affectionate nickname, it'd definitelyb Valley though.
How is it pronounced? Is it "Val-yes" or "Vah-lies" or "Vay-leez" or something else?
I'd say like the first, but with a bit more of a "z" at the end.
That's precisely why I included it in my list.
I think the Cartmel plan is back in some ways, with Jodies’ Doctor being the only one since Sylvester to perhaps remember her earlier selves.
I thought the “extra” Doctors in ‘ Morbius were that character’s more numerous past selves “winning” the match of experience/intellect. Now they seem to be canon...
I thought the “extra” Doctors in ‘ Morbius were that character’s more numerous past selves “winning” the match of experience/intellect. Now they seem to be canon...
I always took them as Morbius's past lives, not the Doctor's. I mean, this was two Time Lords battling for mental dominance. Why would we only have seen the past lives of one of them?
Well, those very same faces were confirmed to be former Doctors in last season's finale, so that's that.
I'm aware of that. I'm speaking of my opinion in the decades before that. It was a common interpretation -- for instance:
http://www.chakoteya.net/DoctorWho/13-5.htm
I know perfectly well what the last season did, but I'm not required to think it was a good idea.
For once, we agree!
I've actually never seen it, but I really should watch it some time.
That’s how I interpreted the scene as well—a back and forth.
Morbius even asked the Doctor “How many lives have you had” as if he was swamping Baker’s character with his own number of lives, that he thought was greater. Baker’s fourth incarnation was unaware of his true history. Only Seven seemed to have the whole picture. Six had the worst regeneration, so everything was settled with Seven...cut down by a gang war in the movie.
Seven should make a dream visit to Jodie’s Doctor to open things up.
Within the story they have to be past Doctors, not Morbius. In the 80s the implication was The Other, now Timeless Children has suggested another secret.
Either way, they are pre-Hartnell Doctors that Tom doesn't remember. Hence Morbius's worried scream, on apparent victory not being so, "How long have you lived?"
I'm talking about how I interpreted it in the past, before last year's retcon. Outside of "Morbius," it was always consistently stated that Hartnell's Doctor was the first -- he was "the earliest Doctor" in "The Three Doctors" and "the original, you might say" in "The Five Doctors," and the Doctor said in "Mawdryn Undead" that he had regenerated four times. So the only consistent interpretation at the time was that those weren't the Doctor's identities and had to be Morbius's -- which Chibnall has now retconned by making them "secret" past lives, an idea I don't care for at all.
I guess you could interpret that. He sounded triumphant to me, as if he were drowning Tom Baker’s Doctor. I took it as a back and forth.
Here is one of Tom’s past selves, here is one of Morbius....any actor photo I didn’t recognize I chalked up to being Morbius.
Then Tom runs out—and it’s just Morbius only now..slowly winning, drowning the younger Fourth Doctor, wearing him out.
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One amusing element of The Deadly Assassin is how the well-traveled Doctor, without denting the Time Lord's legendary power or reputation, points out (thanks to their insular nature) how archaic their day-to-day technology has become compared to the advances of the outside universe.
Ummh. At the time they were pre-Hartnell Doctors. Then Deadly Assassin introduced the 12 regeneration limit: Holmes was never good at cross-story continuity: back-to-back in production order Talons and Invisible Enemy both referenced 5000AD, in contrasting ways that fans have retconned.
Then lots of stories reinforced Assassin, fans retconned, and Cartmel and Chibnall re-retconned.
Then lots of stories reinforced Assassin, fans retconned, and Cartmel and Chibnall re-retconned.
It's not about the limit. As I already mentioned, "The Three Doctors" had explicitly said that Hartnell was "the earliest Doctor." That was established four years before "The Brain of Morbius." So if they were intended as pre-Hartnell Doctors, that was an error on the part of "Morbius"'s makers.
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