Discovery is losing me in Season 3, anyone else?

[fireproof78]

True, but that doesn't make it immune from criticism either.

Never said that it did. But, if it is working for many people then expecting it to change is a bit odd, I would say.

but it's more of an issue on Discovery because the show is way more focused on the main character relative to previous versions of Trek.

You are quite right on that. That's why I think people who don't like Burnham might enjoy not watching the show she is the main character in.

 

[nic3636]

Never said that it did. But, if it is working for many people then expecting it to change is a bit odd, I would say.

Why would you think that? Even if you accept the premise that the vast majority of fans are in love with Burnham as a main character (I don't because that's speculation and I've heard enough criticism of this to lead me believe that it's not working for many people unless it's just one person with hundreds of online accounts), things are always evolving. Shows are constantly reinventing themselves to stay fresh. What if they run out of stories to tell about Burnham?

You are quite right on that. That's why I think people who don't like Burnham might enjoy not watching the show she is the main character in.

I feel like you're trying to say that Burnham is somehow immune from criticism and that people should just shut up and stop watching the show, which again I reject. Burnham being the main character and the amount of focus on her may cause people to stop watching the show or it may not. That depends on how much you dislike Burnham relative to how much you like other aspects of the show.

 

[nic3636]

Sorry this is a repost cause I screwed up my quotes and not sure how to edit my original post.

Never said that it did. But, if it is working for many people then expecting it to change is a bit odd, I would say.

Why would you think that? Even if you accept the premise that the vast majority of fans are in love with Burnham as a main character (I don't because that's speculation and I've heard enough criticism of this to lead me believe that it's not working for many people unless it's just one person with hundreds of online accounts), things are always evolving. Shows are constantly reinventing themselves to stay fresh. What if they run out of stories to tell about Burnham?

 

[Lord Garth]

I mean I don't think it's necessarily a binary thing. I would personally prefer if the series went from being 90% about Michael Burnham to maybe 70% about Michael Burnham (or insert whatever percentages make sense). The point is, you can dial it back and still have her as the series lead.

I'm also not sure why it's etched in stone that she has to be the series lead. It's like, everything else about this show can change mid-way through each season, but this can apparently never change for some reason (though I agree it's not likely to change). But that doesn't mean the fans have to accept this as one of the ten commandments of Star Trek. If it's not working, they should make adjustments.

Let's look at this one-by-one:

• The first episode focused on Burnham/Book.
• The second focused on the Discovery crew except for Burnham.
• The third episode was story-driven not character-driven.
• The fourth episode was focused on a new character, Adira.
• The fifth focused on Nhan.
• The sixth episode was story-driven.
• The seventh episode focused on Burnham.
• The eighth episode focused on Book.
• The ninth and tenth episodes focused on Georgiou.
• The eleventh through thirteenth episodes were mostly story-driven. But Saru and especially Stamets were put through a lot, emotionally.
• Throughout the first half of the season, Detmer had her own character-driven story in the background.
• Saru and Tilly both had several moments in episodes where they were getting used to their new positions.
• We got to see Stamets/Culber and Adira grow into an unofficial family unit.

By my count, half the season's episodes were focused on exploring a specific character. Only two of those were Burnham. The rest delved into other characters. And I listed three other character-focused storylines that weren't a main focus but were there throughout large amounts of the season.

 

[fireproof78]

I feel like you're trying to say that Burnham is somehow immune from criticism and that people should just shut up and stop watching the show, which again I reject. Burnham being the main character and the amount of focus on her may cause people to stop watching the show or it may not. That depends on how much you dislike Burnham relative to how much you like other aspects of the show.

Putting words in to my mouth. No where have I stated it should be immune to criticism. My long held belief is that people should watch things that they like. And if the only things being discussed are criticisms of the show then I'm going to go "Hmm, maybe that show isn't enjoyable for you."

Of course, then I'm told that being critical is fun and I just roll my eyes. Fun is in the eye of the beholder, I suppose.

And, no, I don't think if you don't like the main character you must automatically stop watching. I can't stand the main character in the Mandalorian but the world building is of interest to me. So I highlight that when discussing it, not what I hate.

Why would you think that? Even if you accept the premise that the vast majority of fans are in love with Burnham as a main character (I don't because that's speculation and I've heard enough criticism of this to lead me believe that it's not working for many people unless it's just one person with hundreds of online accounts), things are always evolving. Shows are constantly reinventing themselves to stay fresh. What if they run out of stories to tell about Burnham?

Again, putting words in to my mouth. I didn't say people were in love with Burnham but that it was currently working for people. As @Lord Garth illustrates this Season had a variety of different stories not all focused on Burnham herself. So, it's not just Burnham at center focus at all times. So they are already doing the thing that people say that they want online, focusing on other characters. Burnham just is the hero which means she is going to solve a lot of the problems and have a lot of focus. So, again, I think if the current way the show is going indicates that sitting around expecting them to shift away from Burnham is expecting them to basically sideline her in a show that she is the main character of. That's the impression I am getting.

 

[Camren]

Let's look at this one-by-one:

• The first episode focused on Burnham/Book.
• The second focused on the Discovery crew except for Burnham.
• The third episode was story-driven not character-driven.
• The fourth episode was focused on a new character, Adira.
• The fifth focused on Nhan.
• The sixth episode was story-driven.
• The seventh episode focused on Burnham.
• The eighth episode focused on Book.
• The ninth and tenth episodes focused on Georgiou.
• The eleventh through thirteenth episodes were mostly story-driven. But Saru and especially Stamets were put through a lot, emotionally.
• Throughout the first half of the season, Detmer had her own character-driven story in the background.
• Saru and Tilly both had several moments in episodes where they were getting used to their new positions.
• We got to see Stamets/Culber and Adira grow into an unofficial family unit.

By my count, half the season's episodes were focused on exploring a specific character. Only two of those were Burnham. The rest delved into other characters. And I listed three other character-focused storylines that weren't a main focus but were there throughout large amounts of the season.

Even those episodes that apparently focussed on other characters had Burnham play a big role in them. The only episode I think barely featured Burnham was the 2nd episode - yet she still turned up right at the end to save the day.

 

[Vger23]

Been watching the NFL today on CBS. They had a commercial for Paramount Plus to advertise their shows on it. They featured a new Star Trek character prominently: Captain Pike.

I wonder why they chose him instead of Michael Burnham? Considering Discovery is such a massive hit, and it's lead character is so popular, it just seems strange.

They must have read somewhere that you don't like DSC or Burnham...and were trying desperately to please you.

New show to push, classic uniforms, Spock and if you want to be cynical 2 white men for the target NFL audience

People of color are not in the desired audience demographic for NFL football?

I'd like to hear more about that.

 

[fireproof78]

They must have read somewhere that you don't like DSC or Burnham...and were trying desperately to please you.

That's what CBS' business model is built on-desperately catering to the angriest folks.

"I'd like that Discovery show if it didn't have that Burnham character in it?"

Oh, you mean you would like that show a lot more without the main character in it? Next we are going to a steak house and complaining about all the beef there!

It's just so confusing.

 

[Lord Garth]

Even those episodes that apparently focussed on other characters had Burnham play a big role in them. The only episode I think barely featured Burnham was the 2nd episode - yet she still turned up right at the end to save the day.

"Apparently"? Interesting choice of wording. You know, it's okay to say I have a point. It won't destroy your image and we won't think any less of you as someone who doesn't like the show.

 

[fireproof78]

"Apparently"? Interesting choice of wording. You know, it's okay to say I have a point. It won't destroy your image and we won't think any less of you as someone who doesn't like the show.

Clearly the episodes are really about Burnham. When they use other characters names they really mean "Burnham." I heard it.

Yes, I'm getting sarcastic. It's like people really need to justify not liking a fictional character on a TV show.

 

[Camren]

"Apparently"? Interesting choice of wording. You know, it's okay to say I have a point. It won't destroy your image and we won't think any less of you as someone who doesn't like the show.

But your point is kinda moot. You're claiming the show isn't all about Burnham and have cited episodes as evidence but those episodes do feature Burnham heavily. I'm not even sure why you're disputing this point. This series clearly is about Burnham. Even when she's not the main point of focus, she still has to be there and play a big part somehow.

 

[fireproof78]

That's been the case since the beginning of the show. This show primarily orients around Burnham, and has focus on other characters from time to time. It's like Kirk and Spock and how they were usually figuring out the problems.

 

[Camren]

True, Kirk and Spock were featured much more heavily than the rest. But since then, none of the Trek series have revolved around mainly one character. Each cast member gets their day in the sun - hell, sometimes it's a recurring character that's the main focus. On Discovery we never see any of the bridge crew get more than a few minutes of screen time much less an entire episode devoted to them because Burnham needs to have all the attention. The one exception I can think of is Ariam - and that was one of the better episodes of the series.

 

[fireproof78]

True, Kirk and Spock were featured much more heavily than the rest. But since then, none of the Trek series have revolved around mainly one character. Each cast member gets their day in the sun - hell, sometimes it's a recurring character that's the main focus. On Discovery we never see any of the bridge crew get more than a few minutes of screen time much less an entire episode devoted to them because Burnham needs to have all the attention. The one exception I can think of is Ariam - and that was one of the better episodes of the series.

And that's fine for other shows to do that. That isn't what Discovery set out to do from the beginning. It was specifically billed as being different with a different style and focus when it came to characters. So, again, going to a steak house and complaining about all the steak.

 

[Vger23]

True, Kirk and Spock were featured much more heavily than the rest. But since then, none of the Trek series have revolved around mainly one character. Each cast member gets their day in the sun - hell, sometimes it's a recurring character that's the main focus. On Discovery we never see any of the bridge crew get more than a few minutes of screen time much less an entire episode devoted to them because Burnham needs to have all the attention. The one exception I can think of is Ariam - and that was one of the better episodes of the series.

It's a different show with a different approach to storytelling and characters, designed to get away from the tired formula that was over-used from 1987-2004. It may not be to everyone's liking (changes to formula are often polarizing to say the least), but the show is purposefully set up to take a different approach. It's not like they're just aimless idiots who forget to write about the bridge crew.

They're not part of the primary story.

It's like getting frustrated at an episode of "24" for being too much about Jack Bauer and not focusing enough on Edgar and Chloe. It makes no sense. I can understand not liking it...but to complain about it as though the writers are missing something seems a little whacky.

 

[fireproof78]

It's a different show with a different approach to storytelling and characters, designed to get away from the tired formula that was over-used from 1987-2004. It may not be to everyone's liking (changes to formula are often polarizing to say the least), but the show is purposefully set up to take a different approach. It's not like they're just aimless idiots who forget to write about the bridge crew.

They're not part of the primary story.

It's like getting frustrated at an episode of "24" for being too much about Jack Bauer and not focusing enough on Edgar and Chloe. It makes no sense. I can understand not liking it...but to complain about it as though the writers are missing something seems a little whacky.

It's not a bug; it's a feature.

 

[Lord Garth]

But your point is kinda moot. You're claiming the show isn't all about Burnham and have cited episodes as evidence but those episodes do feature Burnham heavily. I'm not even sure why you're disputing this point. This series clearly is about Burnham. Even when she's not the main point of focus, she still has to be there and play a big part somehow.

The other poster's point is the show is 90% about Burnham, which is an exaggeration.

I would never not say the main focus of DSC is on Burnham, but to say she's the only focus or almost the only focus is a blatant denial of other major characters.

 

[Vger23]

The other poster's point is the show is 90% about Burnham, which is an exaggeration.

I would never not say the main focus of DSC is on Burnham, but to say she's the only focus or almost the only focus is a blatant denial of other major characters.

Saru and Tilly have had major arcs in each season. Pike and Spock featured prominently in S2, as did Hugh Culber with his return arc. Georgiou has featured prominently, particularly this past season.

It's ok to not like Burnham, but to claim that the Discovery universe is entirely dedicated to her is disingenuous. She's the main character, but the focus on her isn't abnormal. If someone doesn't resonate with the character, it's going to feel more excessive. But, ultimately, it's really not.

Also, this isn't TNG with 28 episodes per season where you could do the obligatory character stuff with the minor cast members

• Worf and Alexander or Worf and Klingon culture
• Troi and her powers or Troi and her mother
• Beverly and .....whatever
• Q shows up again

There isn't time to tell an arc-based story with only 13 episodes and pause to give Lt. Bryce an entire episode where he is trying to get over not being able to see his mother again or something. It just doesn't work that way.

 

[fireproof78]

Georgiou has featured prominently, particularly this past season.

Georgiou had probably one of the best arcs in this season. I love Burnham's and Detmer's stories but Georgiou's did such a great job of highlighting just how different she was as a character, and how the relationship between her and Burnham had shifted from one of clinging on to the past to recognizing and appreciating the other.

It isn't just an arc that informs the season either but how the two characters have related to each other from the beginning of their relationship in Season 1. It's great.

 

[nic3636]

And that's fine for other shows to do that. That isn't what Discovery set out to do from the beginning. It was specifically billed as being different with a different style and focus when it came to characters. So, again, going to a steak house and complaining about all the steak.

To be clear, I'm not opposed to the approach. I just don't think SMG is strong enough to excel in a role like that, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, but ultimately the show is going to be limited by her acting ability. If it was Michelle Y in that role, totally different story.

Georgiou had probably one of the best arcs in this season. I love Burnham's and Detmer's stories but Georgiou's did such a great job of highlighting just how different she was as a character, and how the relationship between her and Burnham had shifted from one of clinging on to the past to recognizing and appreciating the other.

It isn't just an arc that informs the season either but how the two characters have related to each other from the beginning of their relationship in Season 1. It's great.

I personally thought Georgiou's character came off as too one dimensional early in the season but I did quite enjoy her two parter for that exact reason.