What happens if an alien civilization cries out for help?

[Gingerbread Demon]

This is a question because the whole standard of "warp travel" really bugs me. Why is that the gold standard before you will contact any new world?

Just suppose for a moment that there was an alien civilization that had everything except warp travel, they have long range interstellar probes and have managed to create communications channels with other worlds so they know about alien life and other species. What if they are crying out for help and want help from the Federation who they have learned about from their other contacts.

Would the Federation still not want them to join even if they don't have warp drive, I keep thinking this is some kind of gold standard that will gain you federation entry, or at least that's the impression I get from various Star Trek..

 

[tesral]

The Conundrum of the Prime Directive

I will not copy it in total here. At least how I see it. The Prime Directive is far too under explained to make any kind of policy about.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

The Conundrum of the Prime Directive

I will not copy it in total here. At least how I see it. The Prime Directive is far too under explained to make any kind of policy about.

But no series has ever done it consistently.

OK for my example the planet I was thinking of they have invented everything they need just they never got around to warp drive but they do know about aliens, and probably even trade with them.

 

[Angry Fanboy]

I'd say if the civilisation knows about and already has contact with aliens then the seal is already broken and the Federation is fine to get involved to provide assistance.

 

[at Quark's]

I don't think the 'warp travel threshold' is a dogmatic rule, more like a rule of thumb.

I think the real condition is whether they know of the existence of (intelligent) alien cultures, perhaps qualified in some manner, as that such knowledge needs to be actual, more than just myths and legends. That knowledge would come with the development of warp drive at the latest, since then they'd bump into signs of such alien cultures, or aliens themselves, sooner or later. To prevent a random encounter in deep space, first contact is made in a controlled manner, as explained in First Contact (the TNG episode, not the movie).

Apparently, most cultures don't develop subspace communications before they develop warp drive. Subspace communications would make interstellar communications practical and presumably increase the chances of detecting alien communications dramatically as most alien interstellar cultures would be using that. Neither would there be a pressing need to do so as within a solar system you'd have a communication delay of hours with lightspeed communication at the most. It's also possible that you need more advanced knowledge of subspace before you can invent subspace communications than you'd need for creating a warp drive, making a reverse order of invention way less likely, much like you wouldn't expect a culture to invent automobiles before they'd invent animal drawn carriages.

 

[Finn]

Depends on the plot

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Depends on the plot

Of course this is the most logical answer.

But I was imagining a civilization that traded with aliens and knows about aliens and has contact with them but they just never got around to warp drive, it wasn't a priority for them. But they ask the Federation if they can join anyway.

 

[Finn]

I know

 

[Nerys Myk]

This is a question because the whole standard of "warp travel" really bugs me. Why is that the gold standard before you will contact any new world?

Just suppose for a moment that there was an alien civilization that had everything except warp travel, they have long range interstellar probes and have managed to create communications channels with other worlds so they know about alien life and other species. What if they are crying out for help and want help from the Federation who they have learned about from their other contacts.

Would the Federation still not want them to join even if they don't have warp drive, I keep thinking this is some kind of gold standard that will gain you federation entry, or at least that's the impression I get from various Star Trek..

Isn't that covered in "The Price"? The Barzan lack warp drive but are in contact with warp capable cultures and ask for help with the wormhole they've discovered.

 

[Doom Shepherd]

Honestly if you have functional long-range interstellar probes and two-way real-time communication with other species, (things that would take decades between communications in a lightspeed-limited world), then you DO have FTL technology, even if you haven't applied it to manned travel yet.

 

[Timo]

If the culture is virgo intacta due to having had no interstellar contact (one obvious condition of which is that it doesn't have warp drive yet), the Prime Directive applies.

But the Prime Directive also applies when one worries about a Bajoran civil war or relations with the Klingon Empire. It doesn't paralyze Starfleet, it just applies, in different ways for different cases. A call for help warrants a response as far as we can tell. It still doesn't absolve Data of responsibility in his crime of agreeing to contact, and thus means that his superior officer will convene a meeting to discuss his crime. After which the effort to help can proceed.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Forbin]

I think "Pen Pals" answered the question to a degree. Picard was ready let a civilization die until he heard cries for help personally. Then he got his people to figure out how to save the civilization without revealing themselves.

 

[at Quark's]

I think "Pen Pals" answered the question to a degree. Picard was ready let a civilization die until he heard cries for help personally. Then he got his people to figure out how to save the civilization without revealing themselves.

Picard really seems torn on his own stance. You also see it in Homeward when he says they have no choice but to let them die in the beginning of the episode. Yet at the end of the same episode he also admits he is 'not sorry' for saving them. It's as if he's almost glad someone else forces his hand.

Even the writers themselves couldn't defend that interpretation of the Prime Directive in that episode. They had Deanna reply ' The Prime Directive was designed to ensure non-interference.', rather than having her explain why non-interference is more important than giving some of them a chance on survival of their species which Nikolai asserted to be its ultimate intention. To me that reply sounded very much like an empty tautology.

 

[Timo]

I think "Pen Pals" answered the question to a degree. Picard was ready let a civilization die until he heard cries for help personally. Then he got his people to figure out how to save the civilization without revealing themselves.

I don't get this "let die" thing at all. Picard never says such a thing. Only Riker ever raises it as a polemic point, in a discussion that does not concern the rescue effort but instead debates Data's offense from a maximum number of vantage points. And he's clearly using it in the ad absurdum sense, rather than as a possible course of (in)action - he's the ship's designated Devil's Advocate, after all, with LaForge his Straight Man in a staged debate.

What Picard convened the meeting for, and what he decides upon at the end (and indeed has already decided upon, the discussion being mere hot air to the effect of eliciting guilt in Data), is severing Data's offensive contact with the underage native. Worf opened that discussion with "There's only one option." He never said what this option was, but everybody seemed to agree. And since the planet was saved in the end, this sole option appears to have been "save the planet"...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[tesral]

My issues is there is no general agreement. Every writer treats it as a straw man to burn for the sake of plot.

Hence I decided to hash it out into something you can actually use in a consistent manner. I'm an old role-player, consistent rules are important.

 

[Nyotarules]

I think "Pen Pals" answered the question to a degree. Picard was ready let a civilization die until he heard cries for help personally. Then he got his people to figure out how to save the civilization without revealing themselves.

Picard's interpretation of the PD was too rigid. It would have been interesting if some of the senior officers openly disagreed with letting people die. That scene where they stand in respect of a dying planet was pathetic.
Same with how the PD was interpreted in STID.

 

[dupersuper]

Generally I fully support the development of faster than light travel as a natural point to introduce ourselves, but to your question: if it's a sensibly written story a'la Paradise Syndrome, we try to save them on the downlow, but if it's a ridiculous episode a'la Homeward, we'll sit up in orbit making sad faces while billions die needlessly.

 

[Worf factor9]

But I was imagining a civilization that traded with aliens and knows about aliens and has contact with them but they just never got around to warp drive, it wasn't a priority for them. But they ask the Federation if they can join anyway.

Late to the thread, but how's about aliens that suck others in to steal a warp drive from them?

Ferenigi!!!

 

[Orphalesion]

It depends on whether they get someone (preferably an adorable child the audience will sympathize with) close enough to Data to befriend him.

 

[USS Firefly]

Same with how the PD was interpreted in STID.

Yeah that was ridiculous, really stupid writing