Picard: Redemption Part II

[willg]

Data (rightly) questions why he wasn't assigned to command one of the ships in the fleet. Picard responds simply by saying that "he (Picard) thought Data would be needed here (on the Enterprise)."

Isn't Picard sort of right in making that response, but doesn't quite express it properly. It is made clear that many of the ships aren't fully crewed yet, but he has also just assigned his first officer and chief engineer to one of the other ships in the fleet and his tactical officer has just recently resigned his commission to fight in the Klingon Civil War. That leaves the Enterprise with few senior officers in the event of a combat situation.

Wouldn't it have been a bit more simpler for Picard to have said: "Everything you point out is correct Mr. Data, however the Enterprise might be heading into a combat situation and I would prefer to have more than 1 senior officer remain aboard."

 

[AresB]

He understood that the opportunity for command was more important to Data, than Data's presence on the Enterprise was to him. The thought hadn't occurred to him before, but now that it was brought up, he didn't want to hold his friend back. Data had been under suspicion enough already, both of his ability as Starfleet officer and of his status as sentient being.

 

[Mojochi]

Isn't Picard sort of right in making that response

Sure he is. He's absolutely correct in what he said, & in his intention to keep Data on board. I'd say the need for captains was at least equally as important as his own need to keep some experienced senior staff. He had just not considered Data being determined about command. Once he knew that was the case, he reevaluated. It's a monumental opportunity, not to be missed in an officer's career, unless there is considerable reason to deny them it, which upon reevaluation, Picard reconsidered.

 

[Roundabout]

I had mixed feelings about Data's behavior.

I couldn't help but wonder if Data's behavior was out of character. By asserting that he should be given command of a ship of his own, Data displayed ambition. I don't think Data had the emotion chip implanted at the time.

Data's behavior made me think of the scene in TWOK, where Kirk informed Spock that the Enterprise needed to be diverted to Regula I but Kirk insisted that Spock remain in command of the ship. Spock reacted by telling Kirk that it was only proper that Kirk take command. And Spock explained that he didn't have a prideful need to be in command because he had no ego to bruise.

On the one hand, Data had a good point to make. But, to me, Data's wanting to be assigned a ship of his own to command came across as seemingly egotistical. I thought that Data was laying a guilt trip on Picard by bringing up the matter the way that he did.

I don't know, but I felt that Data might have been out of character. Whether it was out of character or not, I didn't find Data to be all that sympathetic at that moment.

 

[JediKnightButler]

Data *does* seem capable of expressing some basic desires- his desire to be human, his desire to remain in Starfleet but not be disassembled. It seems consistent that he might also desire the opportunity to command a starship with an opportunity like this presents itself. What seems a bit more confusing about this episode is that, throughout the first part of this two-part episode, Picard is insistent that Starfleet should not intervene in the Klingon Civil War, which ultimately prompts Worf to resign his commission so that he could serve the Empire. However, in Redemption Part 2, pretty much the first thing we see is Picard arguing with Starfleet Command FOR intervening in the Klingon Civil War due to the suspected involvement of the Romulans, even though Romulan involvement was already suspected in Part 1.

 

[Dukhat]

The Sutherland needing a captain was just a contrived way of setting up the scene. If anything, Starfleet should have already assigned an officer of command rank who was already a Sutherland crewmember to captain the ship. Are we supposed to believe that there wasn’t a single officer on that huge Nebula class starship other than Hobson that had a rank that was no higher than lieutenant? And Hobson had the same rank as Data. Why didn’t Hobson command the ship?

 

[amp]

Data's behavior made me think of the scene in TWOK, where Kirk informed Spock that the Enterprise needed to be diverted to Regula I but Kirk insisted that Spock remain in command of the ship. Spock reacted by telling Kirk that it was only proper that Kirk take command. And Spock explained that he didn't have a prideful need to be in command because he had no ego to bruise.

And in the TOS episode "Journey to Babel" Spock refuses to relinquish command even though it put Sarek's life in danger and Scotty is perfectly qualified to take over for him. In that case, Spock believed that it was his duty to remain as captain even at the risk of his father dying.

Data may have similarly believed that it was his duty to captain a ship because of his experience and knowledge. His being in command was simply the best way that Starfleet could utilize him in that situation. (And in the end, that proved to be true since he was able to detect the cloaked Warbirds as captain of the Sutherland.)

 

[somebuddyX]

There wasn't many senior officers on duty but Picard probably just woke up the night crew and had them pull double shifts.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[JediKnightButler]

There wasn't many senior officers on duty but Picard probably just woke up the night crew and had them pull double shifts.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

Ah! Those glorious sons of b*****es

 

[Timo]

The Sutherland needing a captain was just a contrived way of setting up the scene. If anything, Starfleet should have already assigned an officer of command rank who was already a Sutherland crewmember to captain the ship.

Why? I'm sure they assigned a CO - not out of the ranks of the crew, but out of the pool of best qualified people. She just happened to be at Kappa Remotia at the time.

The Excalibur shows us how it goes: when the ship is immobilized by repairs, the skilled folks are put to better use elsewhere.

Are we supposed to believe that there wasn’t a single officer on that huge Nebula class starship other than Hobson that had a rank that was no higher than lieutenant?

Quite probably. After all, the ship was going nowhere and doing nothing.

And Hobson had the same rank as Data. Why didn’t Hobson command the ship?

He quite obviously did, in his mind, and in Picard's - right until Data said "I wanna". At that moment, the potential scenario of the ship needing a CO coalesced into Data being It, ad Hobson not being It. Had Data not spoken, Hobson would have sailed the ship to the blockade site, and then withdrawn to Gamma Eridon as ordered.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[somebuddyX]

The Sutherland could have been like the Prometheus in that it was intended to be a small ship but then VFX said hey we have this new ship model, let's use it. That could be why the Sutherland bridge looks the size of a cupboard.

 

[Dukhat]

The Sutherland could have been like the Prometheus in that it was intended to be a small ship but then VFX said hey we have this new ship model, let's use it. That could be why the Sutherland bridge looks the size of a cupboard.

Agreed. This goes all the way back to early TNG, where ships like the Tsiolkovsky and the Lantree were originally supposed to be newer smaller ships, but the budget required the reuse of movie models and movie sets.

 

[Mojochi]

The Sutherland needing a captain was just a contrived way of setting up the scene. If anything, Starfleet should have already assigned an officer of command rank who was already a Sutherland crewmember to captain the ship. Are we supposed to believe that there wasn’t a single officer on that huge Nebula class starship other than Hobson that had a rank that was no higher than lieutenant? And Hobson had the same rank as Data. Why didn’t Hobson command the ship?

Why must we assume Hobson was assigned to the Sutherland from within? He could be reassigned from another posting as well. She was still in the shipyard, & deemed unready for deployment by the superintendent. The ship may have had no senior staff at all, & names went on a list to staff her. Data, having commanded the D before & been posted as her 2nd officer, was more appropriate to post as captain than Hobson, who might never have been in command, but prior to Data's reassignment, which came down last minute, he was set to get his 1st shot.

I honestly always felt there HAD to be more to his issue with Data than just bigotry. He could be thinking Data usurped an opportunity from him (AND why should he get to when he's an artificial person) He wasn't just acting like a bigot imho. He was acting petulant, wanting to leave his post immediately, finding fault with every command. These are the behaviors of a person who feels spurned.

 

[Dukhat]

Why must we assume Hobson was assigned to the Sutherland from within? He could be reassigned from another posting as well. She was still in the shipyard, & deemed unready for deployment by the superintendent. The ship may have had no senior staff at all, & names went on a list to staff her. Data, having commanded the D before & been posted as her 2nd officer, was more appropriate to post as captain than Hobson, who might never have been in command, but prior to Data's reassignment, which came down last minute, he was set to get his 1st shot.

I honestly always felt there HAD to be more to his issue with Data than just bigotry. He could be thinking Data usurped an opportunity from him (AND why should he get to when he's an artificial person) He wasn't just acting like a bigot imho. He was acting petulant, wanting to leave his post immediately, finding fault with every command. These are the behaviors of a person who feels spurned.

The dialogue indicates that the Enterprise was sending experienced officers to the other ships to augment their own crews. So that implies that Hobson was already a Sutherland crew member.

 

[Mojochi]

The dialogue indicates that the Enterprise was sending experienced officers to the other ships to augment their own crews. So that implies that Hobson was already a Sutherland crew member.

& he might very well be, but it's also possible he wasn't, because that ship, among 2 others, was singled out has being unready for deployment altogether. I took that augmentation remark for ships like Riker's Excalibur, that needed crew in order to be mission ready. Ships that were down entirely might be a different situation.

And even if he was assigned there already, he might still have had no actual command experience, compared to Data's being posted as the flagship's 2nd officer. They're all in the same vicinity, & thereby all in the same officer pool. It's nothing to just step on a pad, & be on a different ship in 5 minutes. Why would you give it to someone less experienced, when Data is 5 minutes away, solely because they serve there already? That factor doesn't really come into it imho

 

[Dukhat]

& he might very well be, but it's also possible he wasn't, because that ship, among 2 others, was singled out has being unready for deployment altogether. I took that augmentation remark for ships like Riker's Excalibur, that needed crew in order to be mission ready. Ships that were down entirely might be a different situation.

And even if he was assigned there already, he might still have had no actual command experience, compared to Data's being posted as the flagship's 2nd officer. They're all in the same vicinity, & thereby all in the same officer pool. It's nothing to just step on a pad, & be on a different ship in 5 minutes. Why would you give it to someone less experienced, when Data is 5 minutes away, solely because they serve there already? That factor doesn't really come into it imho

From what we saw of Hobson (insubordinate attitude toward Data notwithstanding), he seemed to be in charge and giving orders to other crew members. So he obviously had command experience.

Picard really just gave Data the command as an indulgence to him. It wasn’t at all necessary, and Hobson could easily have taken command of the ship.

 

[Paul Weaver]

He might have been promoted to Lt Cdr 3 weeks earlier, having served as conn officer or similar, although his record indicates he could perform first officer duties adequately. He could well have experience giving orders to ensigns like Keith in small teams, and may well have spent a few weeks in charge of the fitout (or whatever reason it was in dock), but that doesn't mean he was experienced enough to take a ship into combat

Riker needed an XO he knew as he was commanding a ship he didn't know, Picard in the end didn't need an XO for the week, he knew his crew and his ship. He clearly hadn't learnt much with his bigotry ("Noone would suggest a Klingon would be a good ship councillor").

Question remains why Crusher, as a qualified Bridge officer, wasn't at least on the bridge with Picard - if not assigned to another ship

 

[Paul Weaver]

OK, this thread made me rewatch on netflix

What a gorgeous shot. I assume it's remasterd

 

[Tuskin38]

What a gorgeous shot. I assume it's remasterd

Netflix only has TNG-R yes. But most shots are still shots of the original studio models, and I believe this is one of them.

 

[Mojochi]

From what we saw of Hobson (insubordinate attitude toward Data notwithstanding), he seemed to be in charge and giving orders to other crew members. So he obviously had command experience.

Picard really just gave Data the command as an indulgence to him. It wasn’t at all necessary, and Hobson could easily have taken command of the ship.

I utterly disagree. It's certainly possible Hobson "Could" have taken command. It's presumable he was originally slated to do so. However, Data getting command over him is hardly an indulgence, given his years of service, & tenure as a 2nd in command of the D, which we never hear being one of Hobson's qualifications

Plus, Hobson was in command colors, so he likely had command(ing) experience... as in command track experience, commanding other officers, but it's easily just as possible he'd never held acting captain status of an entire ship. In fact, as we saw during Jellico's tenure, Data changed colors & was an XO over night. For all we know, Hobson could've been a security chief 6 hours before we 1st see him, in an entirely different uniform. After all, that's kind of what happened to Geordi in that very episode, & Worf in Peak Performance

Point being, we know Data has acted as captain of a ship before that. We don't know anything about Hobson, & Data getting a captain seat over him might be entirely proper.