What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Amasov, Jun 20, 2020.

  1. publiusr

    publiusr Admiral Admiral

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    I liked Dr. Sevrin. He was the Chakotay of TOS, more so than Bones.

    Ironically, I think he could have resisted the spores from This Side Of Paradise, which would have been perfect for him and Khan.
    His conviction would want him to embrace it on his own terms—but it got him killed on the hostile world.
     
  2. Discofan

    Discofan Admiral Admiral

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    He was a mentally disturbed would-be mass murderer!!

    [​IMG]

    The Chakotay of TOS!!! Really????
     
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  3. publiusr

    publiusr Admiral Admiral

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    He was misguided of course...not a Dukat type schemer...it has been years since I’ve seen the episode...he had this idea of a simple life.

    You know, his band might have been happy with Apollo...Khan would have been defanged on the planet from This Side—

    If only they had a chance of a do-over...everyone would have been happy
     
  4. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Vice Admiral Admiral

    There was no way to hide the strings. TOS-R used paintbox or whatever HD equivalent to mask them out more effectively. Why they didn't use clear fishing wire instead of thick black wire, though... :eek:
     
  5. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Vice Admiral Admiral

    Yeah, but let's see Chakotay high on something first...

    Even better, let's see him in Adam's outfit! :D

    Poor ol' Skip Homier, playing a Nazi leader clone figure (in a story that doesn't rub people the right way, said its leader John Gill...) and a year later plays an embryonic Jim Jones archetype before the 70s cult movement really took off, and a decade before the Jonestown massacre. The cult leader role is the more effective of the two he portrayed. Certainly the more original... and more layered... and more expensive since they couldn't raid the wardrobe for WW2 costumes for "Eden". The Way to Eden had promise and even hints at some character depth. Patterns of Force was just being cheap for cheap's sake and is as uninspired as anything gets. Even Hogan's Heroes was funnier.
     
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  6. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Except that Patterns Of Force wasn't supposed to be funny - that was A Piece Of The Action (which was funny, IMO)
     
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  7. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Vice Admiral Admiral

    Oh, I know it wasn't supposed to be funny. It's sad when a sitcom revisiting the same events (and probably costumes and set props too, something as common as that gear would more likely be rented from a central source) is better; Trek is handling the themes so hamfistedly bad that it's beyond a joke (not unlike many "parallel earth development" outings :( ), and IMHO Hogan's Heroes wasn't exactly a go-to show for laughs either. Or, rather, it's not all dated well - nothing does, but HH was popular back in the day... But I'd rather try to laugh with any HH episode than at PoF for its by-the-numbers 50 minutes.

    And yet so many are always quick to say "The Way to Eden is the worst episode!" when it really isn't. That might make for an interesting TOS post, where people can compare two episodes - one deemed bad and one deemed forgettable or "just there" and ask which one is truly worse compared to conventional fandom.

    APotA definitely was made for laughs in mind. It's not my favorite, but it's still more honed as a story - which also shared a similar theme and aired a mere 4 weeks earlier. TOS often reused themes, which weren't always successful...
     
  8. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    He longed for a simple life. He felt that the the precisely manufactured environments were dangerous to the people inside them. He may have been completely wrong but his idea of returning to a more natural environment is certainly similar to the Chakotay's philosophy, or what he learned from his dad.
     
  9. Discofan

    Discofan Admiral Admiral

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    If you put aside the psychotic mass murdering madness... But can we really put that aside? Hitler was a painter, you know. I hear they even made an exhibition of his paintings.

    But can we really compare him to say... Rembrandt???
     
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  10. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Who said put it aside? Simply recognizing the similarity in philosophy. Or perhaps the Baku would be a better example?
     
  11. Nyotarules

    Nyotarules Vice Admiral Moderator

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    He was not a mass murderer, he was not aware the fruits were poisonous until it was too late. He did not plan to murder anyone.
     
  12. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Agreed that POF is not one of the better "parallel earth" stories, not least due to the forced reasoning behind the setup. I take your point about HH :lol:
    APOTA may not be the best overall episode of TOS, but it is the most successful of the 2 deliberately comedic episodes of S2, at least IMO :techman:
    I think you are forgetting his almost certain intention to murder the entire crew of the Enterprise:
    IRINA: What will that do to them? What is it?
    SEVRIN: Well, I'm using sound against them, beyond the ultrasonic. It will stun them and allow us time to leave. We'll go in one of their shuttlecraft.
    IRINA: Sound pitched that high doesn't stun, it destroys. I remember when we read in the text that it
    SEVRIN: I've gone beyond those texts, Irina. It's correct for you to be concerned, but be assured also.
    RAD: We are in orbit over Eden, Brother Sevrin. It does destroy.
    SEVRIN: We cannot allow them to come after us. It will not reach us in here. I can control it all. I have adjusted it so that it will suspend its effects after a few moments and allow us time to escape. Then, after we've gone, it will automatically reactivate. Rejoice, brethren. Soon we shall step together into Eden.​
     
  13. Discofan

    Discofan Admiral Admiral

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    Are you kidding? He tried to murder the whole crew with "ultrasonic"...
     
  14. Worf factor9

    Worf factor9 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That is what they all say when they are placed in the Dock.
     
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  15. 1001001

    1001001 Serial Canon Violator Moderator

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    Big difference between "Mass Murderer" and "Attempted Mass Murderer".

    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Admiral Admiral

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    I think "They messed up continuity!" is another way of saying "I don't like it!" I can prove it too, because I've been on both sides of the fence. So I'm someone who actually knows how both sides think.

    In 2001, I didn't like ENT and I made a big deal about how much it looked like Berman Trek and how little it looked like TOS. Even though intellectually I knew ENT couldn't look like series from the '60s and that there was more than 100 years in-continuity for the look of ENT to sync up with the look of TOS. There was plenty of room to work with. Didn't matter. I still took issue with it.

    In 2017, all of a sudden that went completely out the window. I loved DSC. I thought it was the best Star Trek since DS9 ended. Period. And then how much I liked the series grew even more from there. It was 10 years before TOS. No room to work with at all for visual continuity. So I said, "It's a visual reboot!" and moved on. I was too busy enjoying the show.

    If you like something, you'll look the other way. If you don't, you won't.
     
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  17. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    And even if you don't buy the visual reboot idea you still have about seven years in-universe for the DSC aesthetic to more closely line up with TOS. Look how radically things changed between "Turnabout Intruder(TOS)" - set in 2269 - and ST:TMP which is set just four years later.

    DSC and TOS are closer in many respects than TOS and TMP were.
     
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  18. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Admiral Admiral

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    "The Omega Glory" is one I like that a lot of other people don't. Right up until the scene with the American Flag, I thought it was just a standard alternate Earth story like all the others we'd seen. If you replaced that scene with something else, I bet a lot of people's opinions of the episode would go up. It wouldn't become their favorite, but it would probably have a good chance of shooting up to somewhere in the middle.
     
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  19. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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  20. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Admiral Admiral

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    Must be played every Fourth of July. :devil:
     
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