What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[Mytran]

Oh, I know it wasn't supposed to be funny. It's sad when a sitcom revisiting the same events (and probably costumes and set props too, something as common as that gear would more likely be rented from a central source) is better; Trek is handling the themes so hamfistedly bad that it's beyond a joke (not unlike many "parallel earth development" outings ), and IMHO Hogan's Heroes wasn't exactly a go-to show for laughs either. Or, rather, it's not all dated well - nothing does, but HH was popular back in the day... But I'd rather try to laugh with any HH episode than at PoF for its by-the-numbers 50 minutes.

And yet so many are always quick to say "The Way to Eden is the worst episode!" when it really isn't. That might make for an interesting TOS post, where people can compare two episodes - one deemed bad and one deemed forgettable or "just there" and ask which one is truly worse compared to conventional fandom.

APotA definitely was made for laughs in mind. It's not my favorite, but it's still more honed as a story - which also shared a similar theme and aired a mere 4 weeks earlier. TOS often reused themes, which weren't always successful...

Agreed that POF is not one of the better "parallel earth" stories, not least due to the forced reasoning behind the setup. I take your point about HH
APOTA may not be the best overall episode of TOS, but it is the most successful of the 2 deliberately comedic episodes of S2, at least IMO

He was not a mass murderer, he was not aware the fruits were poisonous until it was too late. He did not plan to murder anyone.

I think you are forgetting his almost certain intention to murder the entire crew of the Enterprise:

IRINA: What will that do to them? What is it?
SEVRIN: Well, I'm using sound against them, beyond the ultrasonic. It will stun them and allow us time to leave. We'll go in one of their shuttlecraft.
IRINA: Sound pitched that high doesn't stun, it destroys. I remember when we read in the text that it
SEVRIN: I've gone beyond those texts, Irina. It's correct for you to be concerned, but be assured also.
RAD: We are in orbit over Eden, Brother Sevrin. It does destroy.
SEVRIN: We cannot allow them to come after us. It will not reach us in here. I can control it all. I have adjusted it so that it will suspend its effects after a few moments and allow us time to escape. Then, after we've gone, it will automatically reactivate. Rejoice, brethren. Soon we shall step together into Eden.​

 

[Discofan]

He was not a mass murderer, he was not aware the fruits were poisonous until it was too late. He did not plan to murder anyone.

Are you kidding? He tried to murder the whole crew with "ultrasonic"...

 

[Worf factor9]

He was not a mass murderer, he was not aware the fruits were poisonous until it was too late. He did not plan to murder anyone.

That is what they all say when they are placed in the Dock.

 

[1001001]

He was not a mass murderer, he was not aware the fruits were poisonous until it was too late. He did not plan to murder anyone.

I think you are forgetting his almost certain intention to murder the entire crew of the Enterprise:

Big difference between "Mass Murderer" and "Attempted Mass Murderer".

 

[Lord Garth]

I think "They messed up continuity!" is another way of saying "I don't like it!" I can prove it too, because I've been on both sides of the fence. So I'm someone who actually knows how both sides think.

In 2001, I didn't like ENT and I made a big deal about how much it looked like Berman Trek and how little it looked like TOS. Even though intellectually I knew ENT couldn't look like series from the '60s and that there was more than 100 years in-continuity for the look of ENT to sync up with the look of TOS. There was plenty of room to work with. Didn't matter. I still took issue with it.

In 2017, all of a sudden that went completely out the window. I loved DSC. I thought it was the best Star Trek since DS9 ended. Period. And then how much I liked the series grew even more from there. It was 10 years before TOS. No room to work with at all for visual continuity. So I said, "It's a visual reboot!" and moved on. I was too busy enjoying the show.

If you like something, you'll look the other way. If you don't, you won't.

 

[cooleddie74]

And even if you don't buy the visual reboot idea you still have about seven years in-universe for the DSC aesthetic to more closely line up with TOS. Look how radically things changed between "Turnabout Intruder(TOS)" - set in 2269 - and ST:TMP which is set just four years later.

DSC and TOS are closer in many respects than TOS and TMP were.

 

[Lord Garth]

I’d say bottom 5 of TOS for me is:

Plato’s Stepchildren
Mudd’s Women
Turnabout Intruder
And The Children Shall Lead
Who Mourns for Adonais


I have episodes that are more commonly railed on, like
Way to Eden
Spock’s Brain
The Apple
The Alternative Factor

comfortably above those 5.

"The Omega Glory" is one I like that a lot of other people don't. Right up until the scene with the American Flag, I thought it was just a standard alternate Earth story like all the others we'd seen. If you replaced that scene with something else, I bet a lot of people's opinions of the episode would go up. It wouldn't become their favorite, but it would probably have a good chance of shooting up to somewhere in the middle.

 

[cooleddie74]

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[Lord Garth]

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Must be played every Fourth of July.

 

[cooleddie74]

A Canadian from French Quebec instructing American TV audiences about the meaning of the Constitution. You don't see that everyday.

 

[Vger23]

"The Omega Glory" is one I like that a lot of other people don't. Right up until the scene with the American Flag, I thought it was just a standard alternate Earth story like all the others we'd seen. If you replaced that scene with something else, I bet a lot of people's opinions of the episode would go up. It wouldn't become their favorite, but it would probably have a good chance of shooting up to somewhere in the middle.

I love Omega Glory

controversial opinion: Ronald Tracy is a top-3 TOS villain

 

[Mytran]

Omega Glory is a fairly good story that refused to end when it should have done, with the final fisticuffs in the street between Kirk and Tracey.
That additional extended scene in the meeting hall is what killed it, IMO

 

[Discofan]

...
controversial opinion: Ronald Tracy is a top-3 TOS villain

What makes you think it's controversial?

 

[Discofan]

Omega Glory is a fairly good story that refused to end when it should have done, with the final fisticuffs in the street between Kirk and Tracey.
That additional extended scene in the meeting hall is what killed it, IMO

What's funny is that it echoes one of Asimov's Novel "Stars Like Dust" that ... shall we say...ends in the same spirit.


When asked about it later Asimov confessed that he hated that novel and that he agreed to end it this way against his better judgment.

 

[fireproof78]

DSC and TOS are closer in many respects than TOS and TMP were.

Yup. And the differences required no comment from the characters than the Enterprise had a refit. The rest is minutia.

 

[cooleddie74]

At some point between 2258 and 2265 the Enterprise looks like it did in TOS. This "visual retcon" theory has never been backed up by confirmation from producers nor has the TOS look being decanonized been anything more than fan speculation.

 

[Silvercrest]

A Canadian from French Quebec instructing American TV audiences about the meaning of the Constitution. You don't see that everyday.

No, but some people do see it every Fourth of July.

 

[cooleddie74]

AS THEY SHOULD.

 

[tesral]

I actually liked the effects used for Sylvia and Korob

Considering that TOS had a budget of two nickels, dental floss, and a cheese sandwich, they did rather well.

 

[Nyotarules]

Agreed that POF is not one of the better "parallel earth" stories, not least due to the forced reasoning behind the setup. I take your point about HH
APOTA may not be the best overall episode of TOS, but it is the most successful of the 2 deliberately comedic episodes of S2, at least IMO
I think you are forgetting his almost certain intention to murder the entire crew of the Enterprise:

IRINA: What will that do to them? What is it?
SEVRIN: Well, I'm using sound against them, beyond the ultrasonic. It will stun them and allow us time to leave. We'll go in one of their shuttlecraft.
IRINA: Sound pitched that high doesn't stun, it destroys. I remember when we read in the text that it
SEVRIN: I've gone beyond those texts, Irina. It's correct for you to be concerned, but be assured also.
RAD: We are in orbit over Eden, Brother Sevrin. It does destroy.
SEVRIN: We cannot allow them to come after us. It will not reach us in here. I can control it all. I have adjusted it so that it will suspend its effects after a few moments and allow us time to escape. Then, after we've gone, it will automatically reactivate. Rejoice, brethren. Soon we shall step together into Eden.​

Ok I stand corrected