Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x10 - "Terra Firma, Part 2"

[jackoverfull]

The problem isn't the actor. They're doing good work with what they're being given.

The problem is that the writers created the character and had about a total of two episodes worth of story for them. This is a recurring problem with modern TV show and movie writing. Writers think it's about economy of plot. But it really comes off as sloppiness. Even laziness. That's why on this show and so many others, character that have an interesting concept behind them become animate plot devices.

Discovery is not supposed to be an ensamble show like other Trek shows. It centers on Burnham. But three seasons in, the show keeps adding more barely explored and utilized characters while other ones there since the beginning sit there and make facial expressions or are glorifed background actors.

I think the prototype example is Worf. In Season 1, the "Klingon marine" was about on the level of the entirety of the Discovery bridge crew whose names many of us have to go to Memory Alpha to look up. He got more exploration in Season 2. By Season 3 he was a fully fleshed out character. 3 seasons in, every single character except Burnham, Saru, Stamets, Tilly, and Culber are at that level. In many ways, the fault is in the concept of the show. With a rent-a-actor in Jason Isaacs in season 1, then a rent-a-captain in Season 2 with Pike, two whole seasons of of character development of one of the leading actors of each season isn't carried over.

Hopefully Season 4 doesn't add any major new characters to ship, and instead focuses on developing the ones it has.

couldn’t agree more: Adira is just the last of a series of potentially very interesting characters that aren’t really going nowhere.

 

[cooleddie74]

Which is something DS9 would not have likely ever done with any recurring character save arguably Ziyal. Introduce someone very important to one or more of the lead characters - in DSC's case a Trill, even - and then just don't do anything with her in the long run despite a lot of huffing, puffing and blowing.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Voyager kind-of pained themselves into a corner with Kes, with her ill-conceived 7-year lifespan. At least they had the wherewithal to replace the character with one that was arguably more interesting. It was just sad to see the actress’ subsequent real-life downfall in the aftermath.

 

[Yistaan]

At the other end of the spectrum is Star Wars, which just a few years after drawing a clean canon slat, has become a mess again because of the inclusion of (and especially) the comic books and mobile games. The Star Wars canon would have a lot less junk in it, if it were just the movies, modern TV shows (including both Clone Wars), and a white list of select books.


It was always strange that TAS was non canon given the involvement of the original cast and crew. But it did make sense in the "only live action on TV and movies is canon" paradigm. Lower Decks certainly undermines the case for that strict a standard. I just hope Star Trek stays selective about canon. Because one thing we don't need is seeing something canon-absurd like the Enterprise-E fighting humanoid space monsters the size of planets, which is something that actually happened (more or less) in the Star Wars comic.

What exactly in Star Wars Disney Canon is a mess? Even the 40 year old Legends continuity held up pretty well before its dissolution. And what mobile games are you talking about? All were ultimately discontinued except for Galaxy of Heroes now.

 

[Discofan]

What exactly in Star Wars Disney Canon is a mess? Even the 40 year old Legends continuity held up pretty well before its dissolution. And what mobile games are you talking about? All were ultimately discontinued except for Galaxy of Heroes now.

I had no idea there was a Star Wars Canon. I thought that was only a Star Trek thing.

 

[fireproof78]

I had no idea there was a Star Wars Canon. I thought that was only a Star Trek thing.

Everything has a canon. Even Pachbel.

 

[Discofan]

Everything has a canon. Even Pachbel.

Pachelbel.

 

[fireproof78]

Pachelbel.

Thank you. Spellcheck didn't like it.

 

[Yistaan]

I had no idea there was a Star Wars Canon. I thought that was only a Star Trek thing.

A Star Wars Canon? There have been 2 canons. The canon from the 1976 novelization till 2014 Disney reboot (includes the 6 movies and all books, comics, games, tv shows--even the infamous Holiday Special), then the Disney reboot carried only the 6 star wars movies, the clone wars cartoon over, along with all new Disney made movies (sequel trilogy etc.), tv shows, books, and games.

The purge of all pre 2014 books, games, and comics from Star Wars canon caused a massive outcry and schism in Star Wars fandom that lasts to this day, although the Mandalorian has alleviated it somewhat by providing Disney Star Wars material that is actually enjoyable.

Before the Disney buyout, the massive canon Star Wars had was its main advantage over Star Trek. Everything, from an obscure 1970s tie in comic book to the latest AAA game, was canon. You couldn't say that about screen-only Trek canon. Disney wiping all that out removed Star Wars' primary advantage over Star Trek.

 

[Borgminister]

Never got around to a second viewing what with Xmas activities and son around after a year's absence, but I feel comfortable enough giving the combined 2 parter a solid 9, a respectable Georgiou sendoff...

 

[jackoverfull]

A Star Wars Canon? There have been 2 canons. The canon from the 1976 novelization till 2014 Disney reboot (includes the 6 movies and all books, comics, games, tv shows--even the infamous Holiday Special), then the Disney reboot carried only the 6 star wars movies, the clone wars cartoon over, along with all new Disney made movies (sequel trilogy etc.), tv shows, books, and games.

The purge of all pre 2014 books, games, and comics from Star Wars canon caused a massive outcry and schism in Star Wars fandom that lasts to this day, although the Mandalorian has alleviated it somewhat by providing Disney Star Wars material that is actually enjoyable.

Before the Disney buyout, the massive canon Star Wars had was its main advantage over Star Trek. Everything, from an obscure 1970s tie in comic book to the latest AAA game, was canon. You couldn't say that about screen-only Trek canon. Disney wiping all that out removed Star Wars' primary advantage over Star Trek.

was that an advantage? I remember buying a few issues of the fact files back in the 90s and wondering how could they pretend to keep together that kind of mess...

 

[Rhodan]

A Star Wars Canon? There have been 2 canons. The canon from the 1976 novelization till 2014 Disney reboot (includes the 6 movies and all books, comics, games, tv shows--even the infamous Holiday Special), then the Disney reboot carried only the 6 star wars movies, the clone wars cartoon over, along with all new Disney made movies (sequel trilogy etc.), tv shows, books, and games.

The purge of all pre 2014 books, games, and comics from Star Wars canon caused a massive outcry and schism in Star Wars fandom that lasts to this day, although the Mandalorian has alleviated it somewhat by providing Disney Star Wars material that is actually enjoyable.

Before the Disney buyout, the massive canon Star Wars had was its main advantage over Star Trek. Everything, from an obscure 1970s tie in comic book to the latest AAA game, was canon. You couldn't say that about screen-only Trek canon. Disney wiping all that out removed Star Wars' primary advantage over Star Trek.

And obviously Lucas freely contradicted "EU canon" many times when it suited him (e.g. backstory of Boba Fett). It had a pretty nominal satus.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

RMB doesn't like that the new GoF is very different from the one we knew. The TOS GoF was limited, could only answer questions, was built to offer the past only one way. The Disco GoF now knows what you want before you even know what to ask, makes jokes, smokes cigars, and is much more human-like and less like a machine. No longer sci-fi, but fantasy.

Maybe, but two things:

1. We only saw one day-in-the-life of the Guardian in TOS (granted, and another in TAS). We don't know if the limited amount of what we saw is everything the GoF is and does. Since we have only limited info about "him", there's nothing wrong with expanding the GoF to be more.
   
2. The cigar-smoking bowler-hatted GoF was one of the most TOS-style alien characters we've seen since, well TOS.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

We should find out before then given the timeline change should have already propagated to Discovery's current time period.

"My advice in making sense of temporal paradoxes is simple. Don't even try."

- Kathryn Janeway
​

 

[Noname Given]

"My advice in making sense of temporal paradoxes is simple. Don't even try."

- Kathryn Janeway
​

I prefer Miles O'Brien's line (Said in unison with himself from earlier in the day): "I hate temporal mechanics!"

 

[SolarisOne]

I LOVE timey-wimey shenanigans.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I think the prototype example is Worf. In Season 1, the "Klingon marine" was about on the level of the entirety of the Discovery bridge crew whose names many of us have to go to Memory Alpha to look up.

In my Season One rewatch of TNG I was actually surprise how much Worf was given to do. Sometimes more than the supposedly bigger characters (Yar, Troi, Crusher...) My memory was he was a "glorified extra".

 

[137th Gebirg]

In the beginning, that was very true, but he quickly became a fan favorite and more stories were attributed to him. I know some folks disagreed with his transfer to DS9 (including one or two cast members, to my recollection), but I thought it was a brilliant move. YMMV.

 

[Noname Given]

In the beginning, that was very true, but he quickly became a fan favorite and more stories were attributed to him. I know some folks disagreed with his transfer to DS9 (including one or two cast members, to my recollection), but I thought it was a brilliant move. YMMV.

Like everything else it was just a move to try and shore up the ratings decline. TNG was the only series that had its ratings increased season to season. Starting with DS9 and continuing with VOY and ENT, the ratings of all Star Trek shows slowly decline from the height of their particular pilot episodes. Paramount and the producers wanted to replicate what happened with TNG, so they figured bringing over a popular TNG character might help the situation.

 

[FederationHistorian]

Do we know she actually read his bio? We know she watched Picards...body cam?

That’s an interesting way to describe Data, who was also present.