Justice League official "Zack Snyder" cut on HBO Max

[crookeddy]

Wow, this was not the outcome of the Fisher situation I was expecting. This definitely does shine a new light on Joss Whedon leaving The Nevers. I wonder if this will be bad enough to be a career ender for him?

With enough talent, Hollywood people seem to be able to recover from anything.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

And? It’s fiction. All events are deliberately “written that way”.

Of course. A script is not a random occurrence, but deliberate choices.

Sure. But then...so what? The whole point of trying a different approach is to explore other possibilities and NOT be stuck with "the way 'he' has to be". Moreover, it's a repudiation of the very idea of "the way 'he' has to be"--which is among the very best things about Man of Steel. There should never be a required "way things ought to be" about any character--Superman or otherwise. Of course the audience doesn't have to like the result--but they're NEVER entitled to a result they will like.

...and those who are of the "the way he has to be" are arguing in favor of a version that was not--in consideration to character history--the original version. By their own criteria, this group should be happy with a changed version, as they are not interested in original versions.

Because statements like that attempt to impose an absolute "line in the sand" viewpoint that doesn't exist and cannot exist, which in turn attempts to falsely de-legitimize anything that doesn't fit said viewpoint.

x1000. That is exactly what some in this thread are attempting (and failing) to do.

The Realist expressed the point that I was making. Trek God seemed to be arguing that the prediction mankind would be hostile and suspicious was some kind of proof that Jonathan Kent was correct. I was saying Jonathan was only correct because Snyder wrote the movie showing humanity as suspicious of his intentions -- or at least humanity has being very divided in their opinion about Superman.

That was the point. A movie does not write itself--the world was shaped in a very deliberate fashion to support Clark's journey across two films as an alien who suddenly shocks the world with his existence, so Jonathan was written to express his grounded, eventually proven fears to Clark.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I didn't enjoy Whedon's JL, I thought it was a cheap copy of the Avengers movies and didn't tie up the Snyder storyline at all. I like the Marvel movies for what they are, but I never wanted or expected the DC movies to be clones.

That's what it was--a Whedon-ized, cheap copy of his MCU material, which had no place in the DCEU.

In any case, Whedon may be an asshat, or he may be falsely condemned, I don't know. I'm not sure I really care. I was a huge fan of Buffy at the time, but if he can't find people willing to work with him that's his problem.

As everyone knows, Whedon has been at the center of a number of self-generated controversies before, so the latest added--in favor of Fisher--simply builds on his record of being a rather f-ed up individual.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

That was the point. A movie does not write itself--the world was shaped in a very deliberate fashion to support Clark's journey across two films as an alien who suddenly shocks the world with his existence, so Jonathan was written to express his grounded, eventually proven fears to Clark.

I totally agree. I don't have a problem with Jonathan in how he felt and dealt with Clark, in terms of telling a story. I just don't think he was right.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

There are three ways kids get comics.
1. Theft. Opportunity usually means that the safest comics to steal are not necessarily the books you most want to read.
2. Allowance.
3. Your parents buy them for you and they always get it wrong because they don't care and they don't understand.

Guilty of all three, but I'll add #4:
Buying comics second hand at the "Fun Fair" at the end of the school year. Most everything I picked up for a few cents an issue would be worth tens of thousands of dollars today. I got a fair price in the late '70's selling them in bulk to Dragon Lady in Trawnna, but still... I could be a millionaire just from those.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

I'm getting the feeling this entire topic is hardly about the Snyder cut at all. Which makes sense, since it's not released yet. But still.

Hell, we're having a great time trading stories about comics and comics-based movies, let's keep it going!
That said, I'm looking forward to the Snyder cut.

 

[Guy Gardener]

If DC puts out word that Joss' movie is decanonized, in favour of the new mini series... Joss did bad.

 

[kirk55555]

If DC puts out word that Joss' movie is decanonized, in favour of the new mini series... Joss did bad.

There is no way they're tying the future of the DCEU to the Snyder Cut. There is a reason they went away from Snyder's "vision" in the first place, and going away from his grimdark, Ayn Rand inspired bullshit has payed off with Aquaman (which would not have made a billion if it was a grimdark Snyder style film) and a generally more favorable outlook by people on the DC films post Snyder. There are good reasons why BvS under performed, not even making a billion from the first live action team up of Batman and superman, and nothing has changed on that front.

Honestly, I doubt either version of JL will be canon post The Flash movie (assuming it gets made), and probably barely mentioned even until then. I also doubt that the in development New Gods film will resemble Snyder's version of the New Gods at all. Snyder may be working on the Snyder Cut, but he's still out as a creative force for DC films going forward. His fans may be loud enough to make WB throw money for a Snyder cut to give HBO Max more subscriptions,, but they don't have box office pull, which is what WB mostly cares about.

 

[DigificWriter]

The Theatrical Cut will

There is no way they're tying the future of the DCEU to the Snyder Cut. There is a reason they went away from Snyder's "vision" in the first place, and going away from his grimdark, Ayn Rand inspired bullshit has payed off with Aquaman (which would not have made a billion if it was a grimdark Snyder style film) and a generally more favorable outlook by people on the DC films post Snyder. There are good reasons why BvS under performed, not even making a billion from the first live action team up of Batman and superman, and nothing has changed on that front.

Honestly, I doubt either version of JL will be canon post The Flash movie (assuming it gets made), and probably barely mentioned even until then. I also doubt that the in development New Gods film will resemble Snyder's version of the New Gods at all. Snyder may be working on the Snyder Cut, but he's still out as a creative force for DC films going forward. His fans may be loud enough to make WB throw money for a Snyder cut to give HBO Max more subscriptions,, but they don't have box office pull, which is what WB mostly cares about.

You keep saying things like this and people keep proving you wrong.

What is it going to take to get you to stop?

 

[theenglish]

At this point, WB are just hedging their bets--the Justice League movie was a mess on all fronts and I doubt that the new mini series will be less of a mess than what we have already seen. I am guessing though that the WB will wait to see the reception of the new Justice League mini before making a hard call on next steps. Movies since BvS have been very careful not to overly tie in to the Snyder movies, but they haven't done anything to contradict them either.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

There are good reasons why BvS under performed...

The only thing I hated about the movie was the title. They should have just called it "Dawn of Justice". If they wanted to shout out to fans, call it "World's Finest." "Batman vs Superman" was so cheesie it made me hesitant to even look at the trailer.
I've never seen anything from Whedon that comes close to this:

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

The smile on her face when she's getting up is... I don't even know what to compare it to. Gal Godot is, well, my kinda gal. But this entire scene, how it's paced, what it shows without a ton of fansplaning dialogue. The rest of the movie actually works if you watch it with an open mind. Sorry if you disagree but IMHO Snyder really pulled it off.

 

[Anwar]

The rest of the movie actually works if you watch it with an open mind. Sorry if you disagree but IMHO Snyder really pulled it off.

I do disagree. Cavill gets barely any chance to act, the plot is all over the place and dragged down by moronic plot contrivances, Luthors' motivations are nonsensical (at least what he says they are), WW feels like an add-on until the end, Batman comes off as more a villain than Luthor, the whole "epilogue" comes off as melodramatic and overdone and doesn't even line up with he planned for later movies.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

I do disagree. Cavill gets barely any chance to act, the plot is all over the place and dragged down by moronic plot contrivances, Luthors' motivations are nonsensical (at least what he says they are), WW feels like an add-on until the end, Batman comes off as more a villain than Luthor, the whole "epilogue" comes off as melodramatic and overdone and doesn't even line up with he planned for later movies.

I didn't like Lex in this movie, too bad they didn't want Michael Rosenbaum or someone with the same vibe.
To me, Bruce came across as a reclusive genius who was seeking the truth about his own conspiracy theories, which made sense. What I wish is Snyder had done a Batman movie first.
Diana was handled perfectly, introducing her as Diana, at the gala, knowing her as that person, and then seeing her step up when a crisis came up that only she, as far as she knew, could handle.
Bruce's visions in the first part of the movie maybe don't fit with how we have known him in other incarnations, which is why I wish there was a Snyder Batman film in between, but I had no problem understanding it.
As far as the epilogue goes, I liked it. Sorry you didn't.

 

[Anwar]

To me, Bruce came across as a reclusive genius who was seeking the truth about his own conspiracy theories, which made sense. What I wish is Snyder had done a Batman movie first.

I agree. I loved his chemistry with Jeremy Irons' Alfred too. And for Snyder to implement his other stuff like having Selina as Bruce's Ex-Wife (and maybe their daughter Helena living with Selina).

Diana was handled perfectly, introducing her as Diana, at the gala, knowing her as that person, and then seeing her step up when a crisis came up that only she, as far as she knew, could handle.

I wish her motivation was a bit better than "He had a picture of me". In fact, if there was an ulterior motive we still don't know what it was.

As far as the epilogue goes, I liked it. Sorry you didn't.

Well, we all KNEW he was coming back.

 

[Ovation]

The director’s cut is better (that’s not always the case in films but I think it’s true in this case).

 

[The Realist]

It’s unquestionably true. Haven’t watched the theatrical cut since the UE came out, and don’t expect I ever will.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

I agree. I loved his chemistry with Jeremy Irons' Alfred too. And for Snyder to implement his other stuff like having Selina as Bruce's Ex-Wife (and maybe their daughter Helena living with Selina)..

Next time I'm in Moncton let's go for a beer.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The real coup to more Ray Fisher is not that there is more Ray Fisher... But that there is more Joe Morton.

 

[Samurai8472]

Snyder cut likely getting a theatrical release

Exclusive: 'Zack Snyder's Justice League' might get R-rated theatrical release

"Here's one piece of information nobody knows: The movie is insane and so epic and is probably rated R — that's one thing I think will happen, that it will be an R-rated version, for sure," Snyder tells EW. "We haven't heard from the MPAA, but that's my gut."

Asked for details about what makes the new footage explicit, Snyder reveals, "There's one scene where Batman drops an F-bomb. Cyborg is not too happy with what's going on with his life before he meets the Justice League, and he tends to speak his mind. And Steppenwolf is pretty much just hacking people in half. So [the rating would be due to] violence and profanity, probably both."

When will it stop?

 

[Kai "the spy"]

Well, WB probably wants to repair some of the damage their recent HBO Max announcement made to their relationship with theaters. That said, if my local cinema shows the Snyder Cut, I'm going.