Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x09 - "Terra Firma, Part 1"

[AlanC9]

Also, you are leaving out part of his criticism. Yes, he makes the "sacrosanct" argument but he also makes another argument. He criticizes Discovery for going back to Harlan Ellison's rejected idea of making the GoF humanoid. He says that while he likes Ellison as a writer, he argues that Ellison's original idea of a humanoid GoF was not in keeping with "true Trek" because it was too fantasy and Trek should be science-fiction.

That doesn't even makes sense on its face. An AI with the right equipment could manifest a humanoid avatar if it wished to. Hell, Landru did it in TOS.

 

[Noname Given]

That is not accurate. I watched the same video. He specifically mentions that the GoF was used again in non-canon sources such as TAS' "Yesteryear" and various novels. But he says it was never used again in canon sources, ie on screen on a TV show or movie. And he is correct about that. And Roddenberry may have proposed a story idea with the GoF but that story was never put to film. Story ideas are not canon.

Also, you are leaving out part of his criticism. Yes, he makes the "sacrosanct" argument but he also makes another argument. He criticizes Discovery for going back to Harlan Ellison's rejected idea of making the GoF humanoid. He says that while he likes Ellison as a writer, he argues that Ellison's original idea of a humanoid GoF was not in keeping with "true Trek" because it was too fantasy and Trek should be science-fiction. He quotes from the TNG Bible that specifically says that Trek is science-fiction, not fantasy. So he argues that if Discovery wanted to use the GoF that they should have gone with the depiction in City of the Edge of Forever, not Ellison's original idea.

Personally, I find the argument a bit strange because Ellison was the creator of the GoF. You would think that the creator would get a say in how the concept should be done. And yes, I get that his original concept was not used in canon. But I would think that Discovery should be respected for going back to what the actual creator of the concept wanted to do.

On a side note, I also take issue with his rant about how Discovery is not true Trek because it violates the rules laid out in the Trek bibles. RMB reads several of the rules from the TOS and TNG bibles (the documents that describe what the shows are about and how the writers should write for the shows). He reads the rules that say Trek is science-fiction not fantasy. He reads the rule that say the characters should be highly competent and people who are better than we are and people we should aspire to be like. He reads the rule that says that the characters should not run off on love affairs but should put duty first. He argues Discovery violates these rules.

The fact is that even TOS and TNG probably violated their own writing bibles a couple times in order to tell a good story that they wanted to tell. The writer's bibles are usually guidelines, not hard fast commandments.

Also, the TOS and TNG bibles don't apply to Discovery because Discovery is a different show. And Discovery would have its own bible for the writers. Discovery only needs to follow its own writer's bible, not the writer's bible of past shows.

Except for the fact that TAS is now considered canon. TAS has been canon since 2006; so sorry RMB is talking out of his ass as usual.

 

[ananta]

We need to stop mentioning RMB’s name or he may appear like Michael Keaton in Beetlejuice.

 

[Romulan_spy]

Except for the fact that TAS is now considered canon. TAS has been canon since 2006; so sorry RMB is talking out of his ass as usual.

I already corrected the record on TAS. The non-canon thing was my mistake, not RMB's.

 

[Romulan_spy]

That doesn't even makes sense on its face. An AI with the right equipment could manifest a humanoid avatar if it wished to. Hell, Landru did it in TOS.

Yeah, it does not make sense. I was merely explaining RMB's (bad) argument.

 

[ChristopherPike]

Having already done Landru as a physical manifestation of a computer, that's why it probably wasn't done for TCOTEOF. Too repetitious for one season. Mysterious portal with a booming voice, who we're not sure is a device or a living thing, is much better and I daresay cheaper for them back then, having blown the supporting artist budget on Joan Collins for the whole point of the story.

I have to say I don't see any resemblance between the Guardian and Carl, beyond stuff on a newspaper deliberately there for fan-bating purposes. I'm too traditional in wanting the stone donut, and old newsreel Faith of the Heart montage footage playing inside it, and yeah, all the stuff that would lead to a lawsuit from Ellison's estate. Or otherwise, if you're going to change everything to become something else entirely, why bother?

Carl and his door, are just as likely to have something to do the Iconians or even the T'Kon Empire... who at least had a guy called Portal, who appears to challenge people.

 

[Discofan]

That doesn't even makes sense on its face. An AI with the right equipment could manifest a humanoid avatar if it wished to. Hell, Landru did it in TOS.

Landru? If I remember correctly Landru was just a computer, he never used any avatars.

 

[AlanC9]

It's not a great fit with the GoF as presented before. The Empress' ositioning is awfully precise.

 

[antinoos]

Landru? If I remember correctly Landru was just a computer, he never used any avatars.

 

[Discofan]

I sit corrected.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Landru? If I remember correctly Landru was just a computer, he never used any avatars.

He appeared as a ghostly figure in front of the computer.

Ninja’d.

 

[Noname Given]

Landru? If I remember correctly Landru was just a computer, he never used any avatars.

And you'd be incorrect. Landru projected a holographic image of himself to Kirk & Co. just before they were knocked out via a Sonic pulse.

Landru did so again later just before they phasered the wall open to reveal that Landru was indeed just a computer with an A.I.

 

[Danny99]

Totally agree. What’s James Cawley done, other than create an awesome “Field of Dreams” destination for Star Trek fans? Seems like a righteous dude to me.

What did Vic do? I personally liked Star Trek Continues.

 

[Tuskin38]

Mirror Nilsson has dark hair
https://twitter.com/gaghyogi49/status/1338174936263823360

 

[cooleddie74]

Landru? If I remember correctly Landru was just a computer, he never used any avatars.

Well, the projection of how the actual living Landru appeared 5,000 years earlier was something of an avatar. That hologram allowed the computer to interface with Kirk and his officers.

 

[137th Gebirg]

What did Vic do? I personally liked Star Trek Continues.

IIRC, there were rumored allegations of unsanctioned touchy-feely activities. Never went to court, as far as I know.

 

[flandry84]

Mirror Nilsson has dark hair
https://twitter.com/gaghyogi49/status/1338174936263823360

Everything is darker in the mirror universe.

 

[arch101]

This episode was boring until they got into the mirror universe. The cast acting as their mirror universe characters are so much better. Sonequa Martin-Green Mirror Burnham was great No weepy weepy touchy feely stuff that consumes other episodes. Real interesting to see Georgiou return to her Universe and not quite fit in.

But what actually is this? a Dream? Some wacky Alice in wonderland thing lacking any science?

I was the opposite- I was enjoying the ep until the MU- then it totally fell off a cliff for me.

 

[arch101]

I’m so done with this mirror universe garbage.
Honestly this episode gave me flashbacks to the camp awfulness of those 70’s Buck Rogers episodes.
Godawful.

Gosh, you know what? You've hit the nail on the head. That's EXACTLY what the MU has been reminding me of- overacted 70's-80's tv shows

 

[Lord Garth]

^ And who doesn't like a good over-acted TOS scene?

Don't answer that...

With Mirror Universe episodes, I don't treat it like I'm watching TV. I treat it like I'm watching theater recorded for TV.