Yup. Though tech in Trek has largely lost its realism for me a while back. So, expecting that is less a priority for me.
The more Trek changes the more it stays the same.
Better uses for Discovery
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The more Trek changes the more it stays the same.
Hell, season 2 of VOY had "Prime Factors." The Sikarians had transporter technology that had a 40,000 light year range. Starfleet and the Federation should have been able to contact the Sikarians well before the 32nd century and negotiated the rights to use that technology.
I mean, we're talking 800 years or so between the VOY and DISCO episodes. Plenty of time to regularly be exploring the Delta Quadrant.
I mean, we're talking 800 years or so between the VOY and DISCO episodes. Plenty of time to regularly be exploring the Delta Quadrant.
Well, according to one screen lists there the Kazon are among Federation members. So, exploring the Delta Quadrant seems to have happened.
Q said in his first appearance on Voyager that Humans weren't meant to be in the DQ until the late 25th century.
So, with Voyager's pull into that Quadrant by the Caretaker, it would have probably accelerated things on that timetable... but seeing how the writers are content in saying that nothing really changed (despite on the technology and knowledge the crew brought back with them), its safe to think that Starfleet probably came back to the DQ in the late 25th century as Q originally predicted.
As for the Sikarians... their spatial trajector technology was assimilated by the Borg (as was shown in Star Trek Picard).
We have no idea if Sikaris still exists (they all could have been assimilated - ergo, there would be nothing left of them to contact even when Starfleet returned to the DQ for 'proper exploration'.).
Btw... Voyager DID get their hands on the crucial trajector component which they scanned and got a LOT of data from.
Even with Voyager's crew (Torres, Carey and Seska's) failed effort to make it work, they know what went wrong and Starfleet still could have analyzed the data they brought back and make valuable strides in recreating the technology themselves (again, use of AI and adaptive algorithms in R&D would have radically accelerated the research to the point where the technology would exist in SOME form by the time of Star Trek Picard - but we've seen that didn't happen as apparently, the Federation cannot enjoy advaned technology, but other species apparently can).
That's just it, though - other species can't enjoy advanced tech, either.
That is, none of these specific one-off technologies has been made the galactic standard, by the UFP or by anybody else. If the Sikarian teleporter isn't available to all in the late 24th century, why would it be that at any other timepoint? There would always be greedy Federations around trying to grab this sort of stuff. They all have failed with the Sikarians, so the Federation should, too.
Timo Saloniemi
That is, none of these specific one-off technologies has been made the galactic standard, by the UFP or by anybody else. If the Sikarian teleporter isn't available to all in the late 24th century, why would it be that at any other timepoint? There would always be greedy Federations around trying to grab this sort of stuff. They all have failed with the Sikarians, so the Federation should, too.
Timo Saloniemi
Well my point was that Voyager's failed attempt did bring back valuable data and a piece of Sikaris technology (the trajector matrix - even though Torres shot at it with a phaser) back.
Its entirely idiotic to think that Starfleet/Federation wouldn't be able to make use of that data to make their own version very soon.
Heck, the mere KNOWLEDGE that the technology existed would have likely given a species enough of motivation to develop their own version in a 100 years or less (depending on what they use).
The writers have a nasty habit of inhibiting advanced technology for the sake of their story to work... its what I hate about Trek.
Oh and Sikarians benefited from that technology for a long time... and they developed it.
My point was that if other species managed to develop those technologies, there's 0 reason to think Starfleet/Federation wouldn't be able to (apart from the writers limited imagination and knowledge of how science and technology actually evolve and their ridiculous desire to make everything in the 32nd century seemingly a few decades more advanced... not 8 CENTURIES).
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Its also a ridiculous amount of time for massive scientific and technical advancement... and we've seen the writers ended up making 32nd century barely 20 years more advanced than the 24th (not even 100 years).
Heck we already have supercomputers that use AI and adaptive algorithms to do millions of years worth of research in minutes.
Trek Federation has transluminal computing capabilities and they should be able to basically create their own version of quantum singularity cores without needing dilithium and massive efficiency in a decade or two at most just after HEARING the technology exists.
Trek writers are in dire need of a crash course in scientific and technical advancement to make the show more convincing.
Otherwise, its just turning at this point into Star Wars (if last week's combat is any indication).
...Plus the discovery that the machine only ever works on Sikaria.
Devices that work just fine if you have a trillion tons of unobtainium lying around have no value in the big scheme of things. The trajector is one of those: only the Borg can afford to make use of it, and if you are at the Borg level, you don't need to worry about trajectors any longer.
But we have clear precedent where nobody else has managed to do that. Why would the UFP do any better? We don't need to know why progress would stall; it suffices to know that it will, because it has. Not just for the UFP, but for everybody else, too.
Timo Saloniemi
I mean, it's already there and has been for a while. Star Trek is nothing something that I think is tech focus, aside from the technobabble aspect. It's focus is on the characters and their story.
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And this highlights where DISCO gets contradictory, not in a minor point, but in the very basic plot point for this season. Did The Burn affect just the Federation, the whole Quadrant, or the whole galaxy? The focus is just on the Federation almost to the point the rest of the galaxy doesn't exist. Klingons used dilithium and had dilithium mines. Unless dilithium is somehow exclusive only to the Alpha and Beta Quadrants, there should still be plenty of dilithium in the galaxy.
There were plenty of major powers outside of the Federation that had FTL drive systems. We keep mentioning the Romulans, but the major objection is the collapse of their empire. I just said Klingons. We also have Cardassians (they were major enough to hold a vast territory). Kazon had a lot of ships (but maybe they were all assimilated). Hirogen, Krenim. Borg. Dominion. None of these are small 1 planet civilizations. Are they all suffering? If not, then why haven't they been able to give/trade/sell stable, working FTL systems or dilithium to the Alpha Quadrant? It's been 150 years. Plenty of time to get back on one's feet, especially if there are friends or friendly folks willing to help.
Then there are the smaller civilizations like the Ferengi, Breen, Children of Tamar, Talarians, all the one-shot aliens of the week, Again, plenty of civilizations to turn to to sell/trade/gift either dilithium or alternate FTL tech.
As for teh Sikarian teleportation system... yes, maybe they were all assimilated. The Federation and/or the Romulans have had access to a working Sikarian teleporter since PIC. That's 800 years time to study and replicate that piece of technology, especially with the data Voyager acquired.
Yes, we see that warp and dilithium are still being used, but the supplies are running out. They've had time to switch over to an alternate fuel (yes, I know dilithium is not a fuel) source.
I'm not sure why we should think that anybody would have been unaffected by the Burn. Nobody suggests such a thing; there's no obvious mechanism for somebody dodging the bullet; and just as you say, it's likely that we would know by now if somebody did retain control of his dilithium wealth and starships.
Sahil's field of vision apparently covered a bubble more than a thousand lightyears across; all of this was clearly Burned and devoid of Federation activity that formerly was there. Furthermore, this was by short range sensors only. Starfleet and the UFP government chose to headquarter themselves at a location outside Sahil's perception - and supposedly outside the perception of his father and grandfather, too, or else he would have known where the HQ was located. So the two assets were supposedly separated by thousands upon thousands of lightyears! We have good reason to believe the Burn covered a lot of space, then, at the very least the entire TNG era playground.
And in light of the other evidence, it's pretty safe to assume it also crippled the Klingons, the Cardassians and so forth, all of whom appear on Admiral Vance's holomap in some capacity. But a corollary to that would be that nobody would have a good picture of how much exactly got Burned. Might be the entire Milky Way. Might be more. Might be less. But any surviving areas are still outside the new warp horizon; if there's help rushing inwards, it comes from farther across than a century of travel time.
Timo Saloniemi
Sahil's field of vision apparently covered a bubble more than a thousand lightyears across; all of this was clearly Burned and devoid of Federation activity that formerly was there. Furthermore, this was by short range sensors only. Starfleet and the UFP government chose to headquarter themselves at a location outside Sahil's perception - and supposedly outside the perception of his father and grandfather, too, or else he would have known where the HQ was located. So the two assets were supposedly separated by thousands upon thousands of lightyears! We have good reason to believe the Burn covered a lot of space, then, at the very least the entire TNG era playground.
And in light of the other evidence, it's pretty safe to assume it also crippled the Klingons, the Cardassians and so forth, all of whom appear on Admiral Vance's holomap in some capacity. But a corollary to that would be that nobody would have a good picture of how much exactly got Burned. Might be the entire Milky Way. Might be more. Might be less. But any surviving areas are still outside the new warp horizon; if there's help rushing inwards, it comes from farther across than a century of travel time.
Timo Saloniemi
So if unmined dilithium is stable - use Discovery to get to unexplored deposits and build up a few mountains. More broadly use Discovery for the most critical issues such as dropping off planetary defense systems as a condition of rejoining the Federation. Don't do random missions of the week!
According to Picard, the Sikarians got assimilated by the Borg. I imagine that likely prevents any negotiations from happening.
Indeed, yes. There is no reason to assume that even if a world wasn't using dilithium for FTL, there is still plenty of evidence that it is mined for other reasons and would still be impacted by the Burn. The level of destruction is shown to be very far reaching and pushing everyone back to a more limited state.
Despite the insistence of use of other FTL options they are not usable, either for being limited, unsafe, or not easily deployed. Starfleet, in particular, seems to be extremely cautious, as the Federation tended to be, in adapting new technology for their use. Loss of ships is something they are not willing to risk. So, being risk adverse, limited resources, and isolated is going to restrict further development, and just maintain what they do have.
Starfleet should be reverse-engineering Discovery before they place it in harm's way. If D had not shown up, they would be carrying on with business as usual. With the new asset, they can afford to keep on with normal operations, resisting the temptation to make risky short term gains and investing for safer, long term tactical advantages.
They would not waste a ahip sitting. And Discovery's crew must earn trust.
And, if memory serves, in season 1 the Discovery was not the only ship with a spore drive. The USS Glenn also had a spore drive. It's like they forgot about this when they "classified" Discovery and her technology.
The Glenn incident could have been classified as well, especially after the Tardigrade mistreatment.
According to episode 1 long range sensors are gone
