Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x07 - "Unification III"

[Agony_Boothb]

Will be interesting when someone makes a 30th century show that s***s on Discoverys 32nd century canon and the DIS fans become the "not real Trek" people

Trekkies may then actually get along for once. At any rate i have very little time for 'not trek people' doesn't matter which trek series they are a fan of the most.

 

[Discofan]

I haven't read them yet, but did the Romulan War books ever mention that Archer knew all along Earth would win the Romulan War because he saw a future with Earth in the Federation?

Actually, the only future he saw was a screwed up one.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

naa, it’s just that there is more people voicing opinions on the internet than 15+ years ago.

Yet in this very topic there are people who didn’t like enterprise, Voyager or the Abrams movies when they were new and still don’t like them. Why should discovery be different?

Where did i claim discovery would be or should be different? My point is that people can develop a new appreciation for things they once didn't like. I didn't like enterprise when it first aired but now i think there is some really good storytelling going on particularly season 3 and 4.

 

[Discofan]

Where did i claim discovery would be or should be different? My point is that people can develop a new appreciation for things they once didn't like. I didn't like enterprise when it first aired but now i think there is some really good storytelling going on particularly season 3 and 4.

There are two episodes of season three that Brannon Braga hated particularly, he doesn't (in the interview) even remember them correctly, he refers to one as "That de-evolving episode" and the other as "That beauty and the beast episode", my guess is that he didn't have much to do with either.

 

[Yistaan]

Actually, the only future he saw was a screwed up one.

But I'm pretty sure he knew by Daniels' reaction that it was supposed to be a good one (not messed up by Romulans).

 

[cooleddie74]

Name an unwatchable episode, and I'll go watch it just to prove you wrong!

Unless it's Alternative Factor!

[*Steals your dilithium crystals*]

 

[DaveyNY]

I'd watch it...

You already are...

 

[Bollie74]

That's what I keep trying to figure out; show creators are willing to try things out and do things differently. Hell, I remember an interview with Sam Witwer (voice of Darth Maul in Clone Wars and Rebels, among others) and he was asked what the original lines from an episode were. His comment was simple-it isn't a part of the broader work until it is put on screen, and even then it is subject to change down the road.

Star Trek has had changes before, and moving forward is an essential part of Star Trek, just like it would show with human beings. When it changes (not if but when) that change doesn't represent a disrespecting of the source materlal. The source material can't be disrespected because Trek's legacy is well established. Nothing Discovery or Picard or Lower Decks or any other production will change that legacy. It is an entertainment icon.

Discovery is just doing what TV shows do-try something new. TOS to TMP to TNG were all new. Change-it's a feature, not a bug.

Please take this as a compliment as intended, you must be exhausted given how frequently you are the voice of reason in the forums.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

It seems like we've moved on from the OMG Burnham is crying thing, but there is something I would note: Sisko cries twice in the same scene in his pilot (and it would not be the last time in the series), and Sisko is still easily the most badass captain.

Are we talking about when his wife does?
Much more apt than all the DIS crying

 

[DaveyNY]

Context matters. TOS lasted three seasons on NBC. In a time when the only viewing options were CBS, NBC, and ABC. No FOX (as a fourth network), no cable, no internet, no VCRs/DVDs, no video games, or any other alternatives that existed later. A series with "low" ratings back then would still have higher ratings than almost any series from today.

No other Star Trek series, except TNG, would've made it that far on a Major Network as its primary outlet. UPN doesn't count.

After 30 years as a fan, I have yet to find any hard data on syndication numbers, but my understanding is that TOS performed better in strip-syndication in the '70s than it did in Prime Time on NBC in the '60s. That was a major part of what led to NBC greenlighting the Saturday-morning cartoon in 1973 and what led to Paramount spending the entire second half of the '70s trying to get Star Trek back to live-action production. The other main part being the conventions showing the intensity of the demand that raw syndication numbers by themselves wouldn't show.

I have one small quibble with your post ... (otherwise, I got nothin')
My grandparents lived out in the boonies of upstate NY (Palatine Bridge) and she definitely had a form of "cable" back in the sixties.
I remember watching both WPIX-11 from New York City & WSBK TV-38 from Boston as a kid.
They also got two different PBS stations, one from Schenectady and one from Syracuse.
(I remember seeing a "box" on top of their TV as well)

 

[fireproof78]

Please take this as a compliment as intended, you must be exhausted given how frequently you are the voice of reason in the forums.

You are very kind. Honestly, it comes down to me just wanting to understand these different points of view. Some, though, are completely foreign to me.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Much more apt than all the DIS crying

Are we supposed to judge when people cry or give them permission based on what we think is appropriate?

Lots of people have cried in Star Trek. Often it is because someone has or has nearly died. On the other hand, Picard cried because he found out that he was living someone else's live. Nog cried when he was forced to admit that he wanted to join Starfleet to avoid his father's fate. He also cried when he was forced to admit he was afraid to fight again. Rand cried when Kirk was convicted. Sisko, while experiencing Benny Russell's life, cried because Russell'l story was rejected.

And the last time Sisko cries in Emissary is because he is forced to admit he is having trouble moving on.

There are various reasons to cry, both in real life and dramatically. Being forced to reveal a truth about oneself often is a reason to cry. To say that the Discovery has experienced something traumatic should be a given. They may well be closer to tears than normal.

 

[fireproof78]

They may well be closer to tears than normal.

This is probably the most important part. There is more going on for Burnham and her being near tears makes sense for that character. It's where she is at. It isn't emotional manipulation or trying to get the audience to feel something. It's just her character.

And like any other character if I don't relate I move on.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

OK the true cause of the burn

There was an enormous cascading feedback that rippled down back through time from the far future caused by the emotions of Michael Burnham and this caused all the dilithium to go inert causing a big boom everywhere.
The End

 

[Tuskin38]

Agreed. ''Code of Honor'' was a fine Trek episode had it been a TOS episode. In fact, I think its writer used to work for TOS as well.

Neither writer worked on TOS

(not messed up by Romulans).

The episode never said the destruction was caused by the Romulans.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

OK the true cause of the burn

There was an enormous cascading feedback that rippled down back through time from the far future caused by the emotions of Michael Burnham and this caused all the dilithium to go inert causing a big boom everywhere.
The End

It might have met in the middle with all the Captain Kirk over acting and caused a rift

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

It might have met in the middle with all the Captain Kirk over acting and caused a rift

A spacial anomally no doubt......

 

[Lord Garth]

Is crying supposed to be the new "What are TOS characters doing in Discovery?" Or is it the new complaining about "SJWs"? The latter of which never actually went away.

I guess we should have All Macho Trek all the time. Burnham goes on a killing spree, smokes a cigarette, then says, "All in a day's work! Even the Empress is terrified of me! We fight for peace just like I fuck Book for virginity!"

And it's even more fun when someone using sources from the Fandom Menace tells me that I've spent the past 41 years not knowing what the definition of crying is. And uses a Wikipedia Article that needs citations, just to "win" an argument. Which was then called out immediately. The whole thing is ridiculous.

 

[Lord Garth]

I remember watching both WPIX-11 from New York City & WSBK TV-38 from Boston as a kid.

TV-38 is where I first saw The Motion Picture on The Movie Loft! It's also the channel I used to watch VOY on, during Wednesday Nights... except when it was pre-empted by Hockey. Then it was on another night. Good times!

My brother had a friend whose father worked at TV-38 in the '90s. I should've asked for his business card at the time, so I could have the business connection later on, but I was 18 and not thinking about that.

 

[NCC-73515]

Right, so the person in charge of the sequence misspoke, like that's never happened before. Remember the enormous debate from the Picard finale, where Ante Dekovic (one of the VFX supervisors who worked on the show) implied that there were four distinct starship designs in Riker's fleet, when there was really only one with two nacelle variants? When what everyone thinks he should have said was that four designs were submitted, which seems to be the real truth of it. Just a simple mistake where he misremembered what his team ultimately did, he's only human, no big deal.

Same thing here. The showrunners most likely told Criado to put blue crystals in the intro because of the upcoming use and significance of the time crystals in the season and she assumed that they were dilithium. They weren't revealed as time crystals until the latter third of the season, long after the intro was complete. Ever since Season 1, damn near everything had significance in that intro, even the little numbers floating around for stellar coordinates. Dilithium is the big one this season - The color change is not coincidental. I will concede that it's possible that, since the blue crystals were there since the S1 intro, they may have originally intended for them to be dilithium. They then used blue crystals in S2 to represent the time crystals (no need to change that part of the intro, because the color matched), and by the time S3 rolled around and dilithium crystals were needed to play a significant role, someone said, "Shit! We need to change the color of those things to differentiate them from what we used last season!" Hence, the change to red.

Look, (I can't believe I'm going down into the weeds with this) in literally every single scene that dilithium crystals have been shown, they were red, reddish-pink, clearish-pink, reddish-orange or yellowish-orange, always in the warm color range. There has never been a time that they were shown blue, in the cool color range.

TOS - The Alternative Factor (Season 1):
View attachment 19238

TOS - Elaan of Troyius (Season 3):
View attachment 19239I'm only going to show those two TOS pics, as they used the same (red) props to represent functional dilithium throughout the entire series run. Moving on...

Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home:
View attachment 19240
Granted, these are a little more yellowish-orange, but they're Klingon crystals and might be processed differently. They're also lit from inside, so they could just be clear. in any case, still, #NotBlue.

TNG - Skin of Evil (Season 1):
View attachment 19242
I did find this one online - apparently a crystal prop from Star Trek Enterprise that's clear-ish, with some pink hues to it. The smaller picture of the entire lot shows crystals ranging from clear to rose-pink. No idea which episode these came from:
View attachment 19243
Close-up of lot:
View attachment 19244

Star Trek Discovery has gone out of their way this season to show dilithium as red. I haven't found good recent screencaps that show the dilithium, but from what I recall, it is red.

The only blue crystals we've ever seen are the time crystals from Boreth, starting with S2's "Through the Valley of Shadows":
View attachment 19245

Ugh... I'm tired now.

simple facts:

the bussard collectors are red in the intro, but blue in the show, so the colors are not the same anyway.
similarly, the vulcan thumb is red in the intro, but never in any of the shows, cause it's a stylized intro that might have made the thumb red to remind people how to do it right XD

the interview came out months after disco premiered, so it's unlikely the people responsible for it still were confused about it (the pic ship confusion happened just after the vfx were done in a rush).

some of the crystals you show are white.
i don't know where your picture is from, but time crystals are green in valley of shadows:
https://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/epics/DSC-S2/DSC-S2E12-57.jpg
https://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/epics/DSC-S2/DSC-S2E12-72.jpg
https://dsc.star-trek.info/albums/S...very_2x12-ThroughTheValleyOfShadows_03093.jpg
https://dsc.star-trek.info/albums/S...very_2x12-ThroughTheValleyOfShadows_03119.jpg
https://dsc.star-trek.info/albums/S...very_2x12-ThroughTheValleyOfShadows_03493.jpg

facts or not? logical or not?

perhaps you really should watch it again