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Spoilers Robert Meyer Burnett: "Terra Firma" will ruin Trek canon

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JoseNoodles said:
Yeah that's what I don't get. There was palpable hatred for Enterprise. I used to see on message boards all the time, from the designs of ships and props to the characters to its effect on canon. I mean viewership dropped and never really recovered. But its held up to some high standard like the TNG era shows which ran the full 7 seasons. Some of those who bemoaned Enterprise are now holding it up like some sort of gold standard when comparing it to JJ-Trek and Discovery. When did the whitewashing begin? The lull between it being cancelled and Star Trek 2009 coming out? And when will the same happen to Discovery, cause I know its gonna happen. Its already happening with JJ-Trek.
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I do think getting used to things plays a role. And things improving. DS9 S1 was horrible, but the show just got better and better.

fireproof78 said:
No, it wasn't that they had an honor code. It was that honor was the only thing that defined them. That was it for many episodes (not all). It was a very limited cultural view of an intergalactic empire.

All DSC did was say "Hey, there is more than one type of Klingon out there." As @Hythlodeus stated it felt like a real race with multiple cultures potentially contained within.
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That makes sense. I thought we were discussing design changes.
 
Hythlodeus said:
They all were, tbf. Klingons were Humans with headbumps, Bajorans were Humans with wrinkly noses, Vulcans were Humans with pointy ears, Trill were Humans with spots...

Nothing looked very alien. The 1st season DSC Klingons finally did
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Not really, no.

Too many Trekkies only compare Trek to Trek. There's an entire world of film design and effects out there. Trek on TV has rarely gotten even as creative as a decades-old TV series like Farscape.

One of Moore's smartest moves with BSG was keeping aliens out of it altogether.
 
NCC-73515 said:
That makes sense. I thought we were discussing design changes.
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The design changes were part of that expansion though. They looked like there was variety, cultural variation, and history behind them than just "Oh, we used to look one way, then a weird thing happened and we looked another way." It was less monolithic.
 
Am I a fan of Klingon redesigns? Not really. But any new Trek show reserves the right to redesign - in other words, to be creative! Personally, the medium they hit between the two in Disco S2 with the Klingon design works fine for me.

Also, regarding diversity among Klingons, the Enterprise episode "Judgment" did excellent work showing Klingons were not only defined by honor, by having someone outside of the warrior class as the main guest star, Kolos. Kolos straight up asks Archer, "You didn't believe all Klingons were soldiers did you?" when Archer finds out there are *gasp* different kinds of Klingons, not all of whom share the warrior ethos. Watch it, it's easily top five Enterprise episode, and one of the most interesting things done with Klingons to date.
 
JoseNoodles said:
Yeah that's what I don't get. There was palpable hatred for Enterprise. I used to see on message boards all the time, from the designs of ships and props to the characters to its effect on canon. I mean viewership dropped and never really recovered. But its held up to some high standard like the TNG era shows which ran the full 7 seasons. Some of those who bemoaned Enterprise are now holding it up like some sort of gold standard when comparing it to JJ-Trek and Discovery. When did the whitewashing begin? The lull between it being cancelled and Star Trek 2009 coming out? And when will the same happen to Discovery, cause I know its gonna happen. Its already happening with JJ-Trek.
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The Kurtzman era shows will become the gold standard in the next interregnum and the whitewash will begin when the next iteration begins.
 
fireproof78 said:
The design changes were part of that expansion though. They looked like there was variety, cultural variation, and history behind them than just "Oh, we used to look one way, then a weird thing happened and we looked another way." It was less monolithic.
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And them looking a third way was better for you? XD

Odo said:
Am I a fan of Klingon redesigns? Not really. But any new Trek show reserves the right to redesign - in other words, to be creative! Personally, the medium they hit between the two in Disco S2 with the Klingon design works fine for me.
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That's the real world reason of course. New designers wanna make new designs. But then they could simply create new cultures, with new makeup and new ships.
 
Nerys Myk said:
The Kurtzman era shows will become the gold standard in the next interregnum and the whitewash will begin when the next iteration begins.
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It didn't work that way for ENT. Other than one or two producers on STD, the series that have gotten the lion's share of respect over time are TNG and DS9.
 
kirk55555 said:
everyone working from TNG to Enterprise all made their mark while staying generally consistant and without fucking over the franchise. Why does kurtzman get to just radically destroy everything and get a pass for it? If Voyager had introduced Klingons that look like shit and then destroyed the Federation, Bremen and Braga would have been thrown off the top of a building by a mob. But kurtzman, the guy who is the dictionary definition of failing upward in Hollywood, gets praised for doing it.

Everyone likes what they like, but it comes off as some kind of cult thinking with the people that praise kurtzman's original series that stole the Star Trek name
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I was here when Enterprise first started airing. It got the exact same kind of complaints that DIscovery is getting now about canon. It seems to have happened with TNG based on initial fan reactions. Trekkies complaining about new Trek, accepting it and hating whatever the next new Trek is our circle of life. Ten years from now Discovery is be beloved and the current Trek will be decried as being unable to live up to it. It happened to TNG, it happened to DS9, it happened to VOY, and it happened to ENT. Trekkies complaining about the current Star Trek is an universal constant.
 
"22nd century Romulan cloaking devices violate canon!"

Yeah, I was here, too. I remember. I went through all of that with more than a few other posters here. And depending on which nitpick the critics brought up it could quickly become not only tiresome but obnoxious.

It happens. That's what happpens when hundreds of different writers work on one franchise over nearly 56 years. Frankly the fact that Trek is as cohesive and linear as it is can be viewed as something of a near-miracle.
 
fireproof78 said:
I still want to know what's being destroyed.
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Assumptions about fictional history and head canon. Some fans are more obsessed about what they think about Star Trek than what actually happens on screen.

cooleddie74 said:
"22nd century Romulan cloaking devices violate canon!"

Yeah, I was here, too. I remember. I went through all of that with more than a few other posters here. And depending on which nitpick the critics brought up it could quickly become not only tiresome but obnoxious.

It happens. That's what happpens when hundreds of different writers work on one franchise over nearly 56 years. Frankly the fact that Trek is as cohesive and linear as it is can be viewed as something of a near-miracle.
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I need to dig out my old "CANON VIOLATION" meme.
 
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