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Spoilers Robert Meyer Burnett: "Terra Firma" will ruin Trek canon

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Odo said:
I like Enterprise a lot, but it's amazing to me that it's now considered "Classic Trek canon", considering the reactions when it was coming out. When I hear Classic Trek, I think of TOS (and maybe TAS and TMP as well).
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It's considered "classic" by trekkies but most people aren't aware of it now, just as they were not then.

Those of us who really liked it got very annoyed at the level and kinds of criticism leveled at it. All of the energy that went into those fights faded when the show ended, as did most public interest in the show itself.
 
Hythlodeus said:
not only looked, they FELT like aliens.
I wish they kept the same philosophy of redesigning for the other aliens, but with fanboy backlash as it was, we're here. stuck with minor updates to at least 30 year old designs
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There is no reason to ever redesign any of the established Star Trek aliens at this point. All of the designs were excellent by ENT, and species don't fucking change their look every decade. They might as well redesign the humans if that's the logic. we've been looking at ourselves for thousands of years, so why not add a thirdnear or a hand where the left foot should be just to mix things up.
 
fireproof78 said:
Indeed, yes. That's my huge frustration. I cared very little for the Klingons, as they were very one note. Then Discovery stepped in and gave me some intriguing looks and views on their empire as a whole. And then back to one note.

It's not believable anymore.
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good for you. Many of us enjoyed the Klingons from TNG, DS9, etc and those of us who watched those shows knew they weren't one note.
 
kirk55555 said:
the Klingons did not look like Klingons, period. the change between TOS Klingons to TNG and later klingons is less jarring them TNG to STD, and we eventually got an explanation as to why the TOs Klingons look different. the fact that all of the STD Klingons sound like they have marbles in their mouth because of their terrible teeth Prosthetics is bad enough, but they don't look anything like any other Klingon outside of both designs having spiky foreheads.
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Enough common points of reference to see they're all Klingons.
AIPmqjB.png

Even Hipster.
 
kirk55555 said:
There is no reason to ever redesign any of the established Star Trek aliens at this point. All of the designs were excellent by ENT, and species don't fucking change their look every decade. They might as well redesign the humans if that's the logic. we've been looking at ourselves for thousands of years, so why not add a thirdnear or a hand where the left foot should be just to mix things up.
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the difference is: Humans are not a fictional species. Klingons are. And personally I prefer innovation over stagnation and good, alien looking designs for...well aliens instead of a couple of foreheadbumps and outdated make up choices.
 
fireproof78 said:
Indeed, yes. That's my huge frustration. I cared very little for the Klingons, as they were very one note. Then Discovery stepped in and gave me some intriguing looks and views on their empire as a whole. And then back to one note.

It's not believable anymore.
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The detail added to the Klingons in DSC was long overdue, like the way the Klingon Empire was big and diverse enough that a bunch of humans wandering around in the capital didn’t raise any suspicion at all, like it is with real world empires.
 
Hythlodeus said:
the difference is: Humans are not a fictional species. Klingons are. And personally I prefer innovation over stagnation and good, alien looking designs for...well aliens instead of a couple of foreheadbumps and outdated make up choices.
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Exactly. Klingons are too human and are treated as such in a lot of episodes.
Hythlodeus said:
I watched those shows. DS9, in fact, for me is still the best Star Trek has to offer. Doesn't mean that the Berman era designs for the aliens weren't completely uninspired
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Or that their designs are immutable.

ScottJ85 said:
The detail added to the Klingons in DSC was long overdue, like the way the Klingon Empire was big and diverse enough that a bunch of humans wandering around in the capital didn’t raise any suspicion at all, like it is with real world empires.
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Exactly so. The level of diversity in humanity is immense. Yet, the Klingon Empire can't endure some different designs? That's shallow.
 
kirk55555 said:
yes it did. After all the dilithium exploded, which is literally impossible and the biggest piece of bullshit in the franchise, surpassing even the evolve into salamander ship from Voyager, the Federation collapsed. That was stated in the one episode of season 3 I watched before I had to stop or give ino my urge to physically destroy my TV.
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odd that a non-existing federation has an impressive high-tech HQ base, several massive starships, a flying forest, and 38 member worlds :guffaw:

fireproof78 said:
after stagnating for so long as a one note culture.
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what was one note about them that isn't one note now?
 
NCC-73515 said:
what was one note about them that isn't one note now?
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after a lot of back peddaling they again are. but for a brief moment, during the first half of season one, there was a realistic chance for worldbuilding within the Klingon culture, making them a believable diverse and rich culture they should be, considering they are a vast Empire
 
I'm not a fan of the DSC Klingon makeup redesign but to even imply that the DSC Andorian makeup is as bad is just laughable. The Andorian makeup is pretty close to ENT and TOS along with the Andorian flag officer in TVH.
 
Serveaux said:
It's considered "classic" by trekkies but most people aren't aware of it now, just as they were not then.

Those of us who really liked it got very annoyed at the level and kinds of criticism leveled at it. All of the energy that went into those fights faded when the show ended, as did most public interest in the show itself.
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S3 made it interesting, S4 corrected many odd things and made it fit better. If it had ended after S2 or 3, there might still be more hate for it.

kirk55555 said:
There is no reason to ever redesign any of the established Star Trek aliens at this point. All of the designs were excellent by ENT, and species don't fucking change their look every decade. They might as well redesign the humans if that's the logic. we've been looking at ourselves for thousands of years, so why not add a thirdnear or a hand where the left foot should be just to mix things up.
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That I completely agree with. Makeup quality was as good in 2005 as it is now.

fireproof78 said:
Honor.
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You disliked TNG-VOY Klingons because they had an honor code? Then you liked the TOS and ENT ones, I guess...? And a makeup redesign (and ships, etc.) changed their honor... how? XD
 
Odo said:
I like Enterprise a lot, but it's amazing to me that it's now considered "Classic Trek canon", considering the reactions when it was coming out. When I hear Classic Trek, I think of TOS (and maybe TAS and TMP as well). Here's a fairly *light* example of fan concern over Enterprise canon:

""Regeneration" is the strongest evidence I've seen yet that Enterprise must become a reset-button series, in which all the events of the show's run are wiped out in the final episodes. There are just too many inconsistencies with original Trek and TNG canon, otherwise....On the one hand, it's good that the producers can say, "Well, the timeline has been changed so we can do whatever we want." But on the other hand, what's supposed to keep us old-time Trekkies grounded, to make it familiar and logical? I'm a lot more impressed when they manage to get seeming inconsistencies to reconcile -- something Pocket Books' authors have done admirably in the Trek series, especially The Eugenics Wars -- than when timeline disruptions are used as an excuse for rewriting canon. This show's viewership has declined significantly enough that I'd think winning onetime Trek fans back would be a huge priority."

https://www.trektoday.com/reviews/enterprise/regeneration.shtml

There were many more, shall we say, strongly worded reactions regarding whether the series should count as canon.
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Yeah that's what I don't get. There was palpable hatred for Enterprise. I used to see on message boards all the time, from the designs of ships and props to the characters to its effect on canon. I mean viewership dropped and never really recovered. But its held up to some high standard like the TNG era shows which ran the full 7 seasons. Some of those who bemoaned Enterprise are now holding it up like some sort of gold standard when comparing it to JJ-Trek and Discovery. When did the whitewashing begin? The lull between it being cancelled and Star Trek 2009 coming out? And when will the same happen to Discovery, cause I know its gonna happen. Its already happening with JJ-Trek.
 
NCC-73515 said:
You disliked TNG-VOY Klingons because they had an honor code? Then you liked the TOS and ENT ones, I guess...? And a makeup redesign (and ships, etc.) changed their honor... how? XD
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No, it wasn't that they had an honor code. It was that honor was the only thing that defined them. That was it for many episodes (not all). It was a very limited cultural view of an intergalactic empire.

All DSC did was say "Hey, there is more than one type of Klingon out there." As @Hythlodeus stated it felt like a real race with multiple cultures potentially contained within.
 
Also correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t there a TNG episode where they go to a Klingon colony, and discover that honour and glory only apply to leadership and the military, and life for your average Klingon civilian isn’t too different to your average Federation citizen?
 
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