Justice League official "Zack Snyder" cut on HBO Max
- Thread starter Ar-Pharazon
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This. As I've attempted (and failed) to explain to our esteemed Ovation before, a major movie is a very different animal than ANY other, less expensive and influential medium. If Snyder wanted to do his aloof, broody, miserable version of Superman as an "Elseworlds" comic or whatever, I'd say fine, have at it. It would still be wrongheaded pretentious twaddle, but it would be wrongheaded pretentious twaddle on a small and easily dismissable scale. But movies can define a character in the minds of the larger culture for a generation or more. So to equate Snyderman with "the 12,945 'classic Superman' versions already extant across movies, TV shows, animation, comics, etc." misses the point. The more valid comparison is the bare handful of major movies the character has had across his 80+ year history.
He really isn't. You just have to embrace what he is instead of fighting against it.
I don't think Superman is that hard to get right if you have an idea of what he is actually supposed to stand cor and then translating that to concrete story ideas. Superman organizing strikes and protests, giving the people the courage and showing them the path to retaking their society from oligarchs and corrupt politicians would make for interesting film.
Snyder's film's political message is to say that nothing matters. A Superman film should be the opposite of that and that people should demand more if the societies they live in: democracy, healthcare, equality, ending US imperialism, ending homelessness, ending hunger, ending poverty, guaranteeing education.
Superman shouldn't just punch Nazis, he should punch capitalism.
Snyder's film's political message is to say that nothing matters. A Superman film should be the opposite of that and that people should demand more if the societies they live in: democracy, healthcare, equality, ending US imperialism, ending homelessness, ending hunger, ending poverty, guaranteeing education.
Superman shouldn't just punch Nazis, he should punch capitalism.
What's a nice guy, though? I don't think you can call remaining politically neutral 'nice', nor do I think portraying the world as mean and immoral means anything without better defining those things.
If the world and people you love are suffering and you have every eye in the world watching you then you can do more than just punch things: you can push for direct action. That's Superman's secret strength. He can be there to punch out the cops when they try to stop the protests and riots. He can be there to form movements and incite change.
If the world and people you love are suffering and you have every eye in the world watching you then you can do more than just punch things: you can push for direct action. That's Superman's secret strength. He can be there to punch out the cops when they try to stop the protests and riots. He can be there to form movements and incite change.
Which is basically what happens in the greatest Superman adaptation of them all, Donner's Superman (1978). Lois is positioned as the voice of the cynical '70s, but Superman cuts through her defenses like they're not even there, just by being who he is. She falls in love with him over the course of a single, beautifully crafted scene, and the audience goes right along with her.
They struggled with doing it for cap at first. Originally they wanted him to be a comedic character, assuming that nobody would relate to traditional values.
Sorry for the delayed response, I'm just going through some of the backlog of watched threads right now.
He was naïve and earnest, as demonstrated in the interview. These are character flaws that nearly resulted in his defeat: his appeals to Teschmacher's better nature didn't move her to remove the kryptonite, rather it was the prospect of getting him to save someone she loved that moved her.
But more importantly, as Superman he felt the pain of Lois's loss. He was moved by personal emotion to turn back time, and being so moved to act is a fundamentally human trait he had in common even with Teschmacher.
The hero himself is Superman, not Powerfulman.
And before anyone points out that the hero is also Superman, not Superbeing, I have this to say. It's tautological that fables (which in our world are necessarily conceived of by people) are a reflection of human nature. The asperation to be better, not only physically but also ethically, mentally, emotionally, and in every other conceivable way, that asperation is not a superhuman asperation. It is quite human. In the end, therefore, the character of Superman is always going to be conceived of as a man in whom those human asperations have been realized. As a man, he will therefore never be perfect. He will have not only physical flaws, but mental, emotional, and even ethical flaws. He must always learn and grow. The '78 film climaxed with him doing both, as well, and that too humanized Superman rather than merely the Clark alter ego.
The '78 film humanized Superman himself quite effectively.
He was naïve and earnest, as demonstrated in the interview. These are character flaws that nearly resulted in his defeat: his appeals to Teschmacher's better nature didn't move her to remove the kryptonite, rather it was the prospect of getting him to save someone she loved that moved her.
But more importantly, as Superman he felt the pain of Lois's loss. He was moved by personal emotion to turn back time, and being so moved to act is a fundamentally human trait he had in common even with Teschmacher.
Yes, quite so.
The hero himself is Superman, not Powerfulman.
And before anyone points out that the hero is also Superman, not Superbeing, I have this to say. It's tautological that fables (which in our world are necessarily conceived of by people) are a reflection of human nature. The asperation to be better, not only physically but also ethically, mentally, emotionally, and in every other conceivable way, that asperation is not a superhuman asperation. It is quite human. In the end, therefore, the character of Superman is always going to be conceived of as a man in whom those human asperations have been realized. As a man, he will therefore never be perfect. He will have not only physical flaws, but mental, emotional, and even ethical flaws. He must always learn and grow. The '78 film climaxed with him doing both, as well, and that too humanized Superman rather than merely the Clark alter ego.
Not before low ratings ended you.
Do you think Whedon--coming off of his MCU films--was not brought on with the intent that he was going to use that experience/vision on JL, and that he was was just some hired hand who was happy to point and shoot? The business does not work that way for a director of his clout (at the time). He most assuredly had a free, guiding hand over JL and was no puppet of WB.WB was undoubtedly misguided in screwing with Snyder's film by bringing Whedon into it, but Whedon had his own approach and ideas which were hammered into the film, and to your last question, it explains the reason why the theatrical JL is so different in tone and execution than Snyder's DCEU films. He was trying to MCU-ize the DCEU, and that was as "oil and water" as mix as one can imagine.
Are you sure you're in the right threads? You seem to really hate the subject matter.
I've been wondering the same thing for a while now. I think it just comes down to the approaches and styles of the people involved.
That's because studios see these smaller movies as fodder for streaming services. That's where all the independent small films end up now.
In before Zach Snyder says: You're just kiddy stuff. My work is for mature adults
Mean, immoral, cynical city? As opposed to what? Some small town, opioid addicted shit hole with high teen pregnancy rates, a boarded up main street and a population that's largely ignorant cult-like Trumpers ready to wage a bloody civil war against half the population? Because that's the bulk of small town America in 2020, not some bullshit Norman Rockwell painting that wasn't even accurate back in the day. Fuck bringing hope to the big city, hows about he cleans up small town America first.
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