Pretty much.
Apart from some handwaving comments mentioned by the characters, the Dyson Sphere was not particularly well used here.
Also, we heard nothing of it ever again.
Location of Federation HQ post The Burn
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Pretty much.
Apart from some handwaving comments mentioned by the characters, the Dyson Sphere was not particularly well used here.
Also, we heard nothing of it ever again.
The crew definitely has an opportunity to notice these things for sure, and hopefully there will be some exploration. I don't think going with Dyson Spheres or Swarns or immediately advancing the tech just because 1000 years in to the future is a given. Technology is not a linear progression in terms of what I can expect to see. So, I don't go in to it with these expectations of Whiz-Bang-Wow! (trademark pending) technology. I want to know and understand the characters and their point of view in seeing this.
"TOP...men."
Technological and scientific progression are not linear.
They're exponential.
Also, just because WE stuck with specific inventions for a long time doesn't mean the Federation (which doesn't even have a same socio-economic system and way of thinking) would.
It took humans in reality a long while to advance to the point we did, but once we had the first industrial revolution, technology and science skyrocketed on an exponential basis.
Prior to that 'threshold' we wouldn't have experienced such advancements on a regular basis and we would have stuck with using older things for a long period of time.
But we have seen relatively little of the 32nd century thus far... so it remains to be seen what we will see next.
Yes, and then we stagnated. There is a constant tension of politics, and tolerance of risk and such that will always impact such things. My overall point is I don't just expect 1000 years=technology explosion! Nor do I find it particularly important if the technology has no bearing on the story! This isn't a documentary.
Mileage, etc.
and I’m fine with this, but we’ll be halfway through the season tomorrow and we’ve got zero of it so far. The characters didn’t wonder at how advanced the future is nor at how surprisingly few advancements they noticed.
Exactly.
I'm glad we're finally getting a sentient Federation starship (aka Zora) that's not bent on extermination of biological life, but the crew's apparent lack of wonder how little things actually advanced thus far is concerning.
Disagree, the episode was not ABOUT the Dyson Sphere even though it's still pretty awesome for sci-fi fans.
Every part of the story involved the Dyson sphere, from the reason Scotty had to take shelter in the transporter, to the exploration of its surface required Scotty on the Jenolan to help Geordie, to the final jeopardy...requiring everyone to work together to save the Enterprise. The teaser is also one of my top 10 teasers.
Welcome to old fashioned TV. Back in the old days, Spore drive would never have been talked about again, but on DSC, we get to see the wonder tech almost every week. Did I ever expect to hear of the Dyson sphere again? Nope. The only likelihood we ever will is if Lower Decks decides to do a follow-up visit.
RAMA
I think the crew has their own struggles right now and I think we will see a bit of a mood shift with finding the Federation. But, right now, there's a ton of trauma and depression going on. I do not expect the crew to be going "Ohh, ahh" right now.
Correction, we did not stagnate.
Technology and science continue to evolve on an exponential basis.
We are slow on introduction of newest technology in practice however due to using an outdated socio-economic system mainly (but as I said, the Federation wasn't demonstrated to share that particular mindset nor socio-economic system, hence why things would be radically different).
Sure, it banned occasional technologies, but nothing that would result in 810 years of overall stagnation by keeping things slightly different than late 24th century.
Also, canon data contradicts the stagnation element.
This is what I'm thinking too... but it would be cool to see a highly advanced (32nd century advanced) Yorktown style starbase in the prime timeline.
Progressed has slowed significantly than when I was younger in some areas. That's my viewpoint. Other places have advanced.
Again, a lot of assumption that 810+ years=technology explosion without considering events happening that might have impacted it, i.e. Temporal Cold War, Romulan state collapsing, and whatever long term effects the Burn would have on disrupting infrastructure.
There are a lot of unknowns so that's why I am not expecting this massive technology boom. I'm willing to wait and see how it plays out.
Yes, but we're talking about a few decades at best in real life... not multiple centuries.
Also, virtually all areas experienced radical advancements... its just that we hadn't seen updates in some of these areas in practice (but otherwise continue to advance from a scientific research point of view - and we're seeing that things that have been 'left behind' are being updated).
If i may ask (and not that I don't agree with you)... which areas do you see have slowed significantly?
Even if things stagnated just after the temporal cold war and the burn... most species that were part of the federation would have still had radically advanced technologies from the 30th and 31st centuries.
The Temporal Cold War also ended with the timeline repaired - ergo, any potential damage caused by Time Travel would have been undone - and technically speaking WAS undone when NX-01 put a stop to the Na'Khull.
As for infrastructure... replicators, transporters, etc. alone would decentralize things pretty heavily for every member planet... you'd have manufacturing machinery in your own home if you had a replicator (which most Federation citizens had access to in the 24th century).... and there's nothing stopping you from replicating smaller parts of a larger machine and then assembling it with even basic robotics... and the future had programmable matter to work with (which seems pretty wide-spread).
I don't think the Burn would cause much/any damage to the infrastructure on a planet because technology on a planet probably wouldn't use dilithium and M/AM reactors for safety reasons (even starbases didn't use M/AM or dilithium for power generation in the 24th century... they mainly used advanced forms of fusion in the 24th century).
Planet-side, I'm thinking it would likely be a combination of fusion, and possibly renewable sources which are extremely potent (such as Geothermal - maybe even space based Solar).
However, I will admit we have limited data on what kind of damage (if any) the Burn may have caused to planets.
We know Trill suffered a massive decline in population, but this wasn't apparently because the Burn caused massive explosions around the planet Trill... it had to do with the fact that migration patterns would have caused large groups of Trill to be off-world when it happened... leaving them mostly separated from their homeworld with no way to get back, and others would be on Starships (which exploded during the Burn)
And the computer’s behavior doesn’t seem to worry Saru in the slightest.
I mean, I’m fine (VERY fine) with it being a totally benevolent AI, but the Discovery just battled against a rampaging one bent onto destroying all life in the galaxy and when a new one shows up they’re all fine, no worries at all?
Honestly if Scotty has crashed into a planet or an asteroid the story would have been almost identical.
Now that’s a great idea! Someone drop a line to Mike!
Hope so.
Space travel.
This is where I think you and I disagree. I think dilithium was utilized far more extensively in power generation and causing significant disruption across infrastructure. So, I think there was massive damage done, not just to starships, but the ground based facilities as well. I don't think it was just "oh, all our ships are gone!" But more, "Oh
! We've lost significant people, crew, resources and possibly planets!"Now, I could be wrong and this just might be Trek falling back on Trek's old staples of now a huge amount of change, regardless of time frame shift. Which, for me, is just Trek. For others, it will break suspension of disbelief. For me, the technological advancement is simply not a requirement, 1000 years, 10,000 years, or whatever. This is a story about people and show me how people's lives are working, and show me the technology if necessary.
Mileage, etc.
Time alone will tell.
Probably not going the way I think though.
Yep, as I mentioned in the General thread, I just watched an episode of Voyager (Live Fast and Prosper) that has a mining facility that used dilithium in some fashion. They were running out and some con artists disguised as Voyager crew promised to trade them dilithuim for what ever was being mined. So there are planet based uses for dilithium.This is where I think you and I disagree. I think dilithium was utilized far more extensively in power generation and causing significant disruption across infrastructure. So, I think there was massive damage done, not just to starships, but the ground based facilities as well. I don't think it was just "oh, all our ships are gone!" But more, "Oh
we haven’t seen human space travel outside our upper atmosphere much in the last 40 decades or so but that’s just because there hasn’t been a political will to do it, however basically every technology involved in it has advanced a lot and hopefully we’ll see next generation tech in use soon, in the new human missions on the moon and Mars.
Exactly.
Technology advanced substantially on the front... but we haven't had much implementation of latest up to date methods because of politics/existing socio-economic system.
Also, we could have constructed self-sufficient orbital habitats based on Bernal Sphere and O'Neil cilinders in 1974 for 3x lower cost of the USA annual military budget in about 10 years using automation technology of the era.
We didn't because our priorities are severely warped (and prioritize cost efficiency and profits over technical efficiency, sustainability and overall advancement for betterment of everyone). The Federation wouldn't have such hangups.
Political will still has an impact on development. The Federation has demonstrated times were it is unwilling to move forward in particular places.
It will have other hang ups. Thus my attitude isn't immediately technological innovation because the time frame has shifted.
But, I'm getting repetitive. I think this is an agree to disagree moment where expectations in Star Trek of technological change are varying by person. I think there are a lot of assumptions that because the Federation has the capability they also have the will to make it happen. Which, I'm sorry, I don't see the Federation doing so in all cases.
I know, when I saw Zora interacting with Saru, I was surprised he didn't appear worried a bit more after their bout with Control.
Still, we have to keep in mind that Saru is no longer susceptible to fear as he used to be. Perhaps this is what lead to his not much of a worry to begin with when interacting with Zora... also her suggestions focused around well-being of the crew (whereas Control just wanted to exterminate all sentient life - also Controls' reasons for wanting to exterminate all life were... well, poorly established/written... very weak... lazy writing).
Pretty much.
I don't see why Trek couldn't use Dyson Spheres or Swarms as Federation built megastructures with radically more advanced technology in the process to 'set the stage' pretty much like it did for 23rd and 24th centuries.
Only this time, make the story WORK with the setting/technology more convincingly.
Yup... but Discovery could revisit that Dyson Sphere too. Who knows, maybe it will turn out to have caused the Burn.
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