Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x01 - "That Hope Is You, Part 1"

[Lord Garth]

I am so confused about the discussion going on?

You and me both. While I had the Zoom Session going, I missed out on whatever this is. I'm not even going to touch it with 100-foot pole.

I'm guessing it's running its course anyway, so, yeah. I'll just wait a few pages before jumping back in. I've got some weird headache going on (not related to any of this), so I don't want to make it worse.

 

[Nerys Myk]

You can’t see how those scenes recall tired stereotypes trotted out about black men and black couples all the time? He hits her but she needs him? He leads her into crime? He steals stuff and kills people? If not, I won’t try to convince you further.

Nope. I think you're reading way to much into those scenes. But your heart seems to be in the right place.

 

[MisterD]

@Ghouleddie74

I totally agree with that.

 

[Nerys Myk]

But wouldn't Lorca have pushed the developement anyway? After all he was the driving force behind exploiting the tardigrade and stamets I think.

I think his status as a "heroic survivor" placed him in a position to chose his next posting. He looked around and saw the spore drive as the best way to achieve his goal.

 

[cooleddie74]

Yeah, it was a means to an end for him. What Starfleet on our side did or didn't do with spore hub drive technology after he returned to the Mirror Universe wasn't his concern.

 

[Jadeb]

Nope. I think you're reading way to much into those scenes. But your heart seems to be in the right place.

Thanks. I’ve been very clear, I hope, that I don’t think there was any ill intent by the Discovery folks. But stereotypes thrive on unconsidered reinforcement. If people pause to think about it, I’m happy, even if they disagree with me. Maybe they’ll think about it again the next time they see these tropes.

 

[MisterD]

I think his status as a "heroic survivor" placed him in a position to chose his next posting. He looked around and saw the spore drive as the best way to achieve his goal.

Right. And, well thats total speculative, judging by his methods, abilitys and his recklessness I would assume he would have made the sporedrive work even without the klingon war forcing the federation to push the developement.

 

[RAMA]

I forgot to mention in my observations: I give the preview of season 3 an 11/10

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RAMA

 

[Isaac Lawrence]

You can’t see how those scenes recall tired stereotypes trotted out about black men and black couples all the time? He hits her but she needs him? He leads her into crime? He steals stuff and kills people? If not, I won’t try to convince you further.

There are many positive aspects to Discovery’s portrayal of race, even in this episode. But there were certainly things here that gave me pause. I think of the show positively in this regard, so that made some of these choices stand out more.

Okay, now I understand you. And what you're describing... context is king. That's a description of what happened, but that's not what and who the characters are. And it's not portrayed in a negative stereotypical way on screen.

For instance:

He hits her but she needs him. Okay, why did this happen? What happened preceding it and afterwards? Fill in the blanks.

He leads her into crime. Okay, why did this happen? What happened preceding it and afterwards?

He steals stuff and kills people. Okay, why did this happen? What happened preceding it and afterwards?

You're leaving a lot out, the context.

This might deserve a John McEnroe. This might deserve a "You cannot be serious?"

 

[Lord Garth]

Thank you @RAMA! Something else to talk about. Anything else!

I forgot to mention in my observations: I give the preview of season 3 an 11/10

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RAMA

I'm calling it now: I think The Burn and the Temporal War are directly connected to each other. I think whatever happened at the end of the Temporal War led to The Burn. That's why time travel was banned.

Both of them take place too close to each other to be a coincidence.

 

[RAMA]

Thank you @RAMA! Something else to talk about. Anything else!

I'm calling it now: I think The Burn and the Temporal War are directly connected to each other. I think whatever happened at the end of the Temporal War led to The Burn. That's why time travel was banned.

Both of them take place too close to each other to be a coincidence.

Not impossible. Every post-Kelvin series has referenced Enterprise. Could the Burn be some last-ditch effort at "scorched earth" following the Temporal War?

 

[NCC-73515]

Wouldn't mind seeing the Na'kuhl again, their makeup looked great!

 

[cooleddie74]

Yeah, the Nazi angle aside they were a sinister species.

 

[MisterD]

He leads her into crime. Okay, why did this happen? What happened preceding it and afterwards?

Oh, I know that. He tricks her into getting arrested to rob her. Then she coorperates with the securitys to get back at him. Then they team up again and escape, killing multiple people in the process. All of this is totally justified because space slug mantis shrimp must live.

 

[fireproof78]

Okay, now I understand you. And what you're describing... context is king. That's a description of what happened, but that's not what and who the characters are. And it's not portrayed in a negative stereotypical way on screen.

For instance:

He hits her but she needs him. Okay, why did this happen? What happened preceding it and afterwards? Fill in the blanks.

He leads her into crime. Okay, why did this happen? What happened preceding it and afterwards?

He steals stuff and kills people. Okay, why did this happen? What happened preceding it and afterwards?

You're leaving a lot out, the context.

This might deserve a John McEnroe. This might deserve a "You cannot be serious?"

I think this is an example of how context is extremely important. Anything can be painted poorly without context and each situation should be evaluated on a case by case rather than assuming a stereotype. I appreciate the sensitivity but, I think its just an action scene.

 

[Bgt]

Might be taking thing a bit too literally.

It's almost like she's the lead character. Nah, that can't be it

She got "special powers" when it was decided she was the lead character.

No, she not just the lead, she is the only character that matters. She IS the show.
I do not remember such lead character treatment in any other ST Series. That is why I compared her with Picard.
Picard has earned his own series after decades of playing the role in a show that it wasn't about him all the time, not even half of the times.
In Disco, from the first moment they are trying way too hard with her.
They just amplify her so much that she ends up like some kind of caricature.
The whole scene when she landed/crashed on that planet was so overdone.. Everything is way too much with her.
Even in the scene she was under influence, which I found cute, she overreacted.
They have to tone her down, let her character breath a little.

 

[Bgt]

How did the crew of DS9 manage hand to hand with Klingons?
The same way Burnham can, she's a main character.

Also are you saying that women can't beat men in hand to hand?

In some cases they do. Depends on their training and their strength and their opponents.
Not sure though a woman (or a man) can so easily beat down Klingon soldiers, especially on their own.
And Book looks big, strong and seems to know how to fight, but yeah he couldn't handle Burnham.

 

[Isaac Lawrence]

I do not remember such lead character treatment in any other ST Series.

Yeah, it's never been like this because Star Trek has never been serialized in this manner.

And when they first announced the show they said it was going to be different. That said it was going to be told from the First Officer's perspective.

That's was the whole point of the show.

 

[fireproof78]

She feels like every main character ever to me.

Probably the most like Harmon Rabb from JAG.

 

[Tuskin38]

And Book looks big, strong and seems to know how to fight, but yeah he couldn't handle Burnham.

Because she has better training.

Not sure though a woman (or a man) can so easily beat down Klingon soldiers, especially on their own.

Humans in the previous TV series and movies have beaten Klingons 1v1 before.