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Spoilers Star Trek: Lower Decks 1x09 - "Crisis Point"

Rate the episode...

  • 10 - Fresh

    Votes: 60 44.1%
  • 9

    Votes: 37 27.2%
  • 8

    Votes: 18 13.2%
  • 7

    Votes: 15 11.0%
  • 6

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 5

    Votes: 2 1.5%
  • 4

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 3

    Votes: 1 0.7%
  • 2

    Votes: 2 1.5%
  • 1 - Rotten

    Votes: 1 0.7%

  • Total voters
    136
The relationship between Freeman and Beckett is pretty much my favorite part of the show. And having Mariner fight herself after watching her alter ego’s warm relationship with Freeman was very telling. For whatever reason, I got a kick out of Freeman continuously yelling “I don’t know you” at Mariner.

I’m glad their secret is out. Hopefully, the awkwardness of her mom being captain will be the source of some future storylines.

The shots of the ships in Mariber’s. movie were spectacular. They really do a good job on all the exterior shots.
 
What she did is no different than if you had a Muslim friend, and you wrote a play and immediately cast him as a terrorist without asking him.

A better analogy would be if you cast yourself and your friends, one of whom is Muslim, in a play where you are members of the Irish Republican Army.
 
Loved the skewering of the movies.
and the lens flares!
and overly long "beauty shots" of the ship
and Tendi getting annoyed at all of the Orion assumptions
and dodging the titles in the holodeck

"No, it's a movie. You can beam whatever you want. You can do all sorts of beam-y stuff in a movie."

Another great episode.
For a long time Star Trek has taken itself too seriously and this show is just the shot to the funny bone it needed.
 
How is that a better analogy?

Because Mariner didn't cast Tendi as an Orion Pirate, she was a generic pirate along with the rest of them. So she's a pirate who is Orion, not an Orion Pirate.

In my analogy the actor would be a terrorist who is Muslim, but it wouldn't make any sense to call them a Muslim terrorist since they would be fighting for Irish Independence.

But it would still be in bad taste to make jokes about the juxtaposition.
 
Because Mariner didn't cast Tendi as an Orion Pirate, she was a generic pirate along with the rest of them. So she's a pirate who is Orion, not an Orion Pirate.

In my analogy the actor would be a terrorist who is Muslim, but it wouldn't make any sense to call them a Muslim terrorist since they would be fighting for Irish Independence.

But it would still be in bad taste to make jokes about the juxtaposition.

Mariner labeled Tendi as "my savage warrior queen, who comes from a long line of thieving Orion pirates." She didn't initially pick up on Tendi's discomfort, and then later offered a compromise to have Tendi be a generic warrior henchwoman.

It would be just as cringey if you created a LARP about IRA activity and superimposed the backstory for a Muslim that he was "trained in the acts of terror everywhere from Baghdad to Jerusalem, and ready at any time to send you all to Allah!"
 
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A good episode with my own real problem being Mariner vaporizing holographic versions of her crew mates with no real remorse. Yes, they are holograms, but these are people she works and lives with. Earlier this year, she was attractive to Ransom, now she's killing him. I understand she's blowing off steam and I've seen comments that this is akin to "playing a video game," but it's like playing a first person shooter video game in your workplace.

Also, are they trying to set up a Rutherford/Billups relationship?
 
9. this wasn't just a good Lower Decks episode it was a very very good Star Trek episode.

this was definately a call-out to the movies, episode, with revenge, overly drawn out shuttle-round-the-ship-with-looks-awe sequence. Saucer crash on uninhabited planet just like Generations and Beyond. The audographed credits at the end right out of TUC. The James Horner-ish soundtrack. Best soundtrack in a star trek show since.. it might be the best actually.
 
A good episode with my own real problem being Mariner vaporizing holographic versions of her crew mates with no real remorse. Yes, they are holograms, but these are people she works and lives with. Earlier this year, she was attractive to Ransom, now she's killing him. I understand she's blowing off steam and I've seen comments that this is akin to "playing a video game," but it's like playing a first person shooter video game in your workplace.

If it were feasible to play a customizable first-person shooter with realistic versions of real people the way it is to make a holoprogram, I'm sure it would be the most popular game out there. And I'm also sure that the overwhelming majority of people would be able to distinguish between the fantasy of shooting co-workers, friends, family, etc. and acting on those fantasy impulses in the real world.

The tiny fraction who might not would probably have the same difficulty distinguishing between shooting aliens in Halo or cops in the Grand Theft Auto series versus real people.

You may be familiar with the Voyager episode "Worst Case Scenario." It's one where Tuvok had secretly started a holodeck training situation that involved the Maquis engaging in a rebellion but never finished it. Paris and Torres stumble on it, and it becomes a popular thing among the crew, to the point that everyone wonders who created it. When Tuvok reveals it was he and that he stopped because he felt it might be harmful, Janeway tells him to loosen up. He and Paris work to complete it (which would have been fine but for that meddling Seska). Now his program, "Insurrection Alpha," is obviously less shooty than Crisis Point, but it even more than it has the potential to stir up resentments.

I just don't see any meaningful difference between shooting a simulated version of someone you know, versus shooting a simulated person and fantasizing it is someone you know, versus shooting a simulated person who is being controlled by someone you know.

To me, the only problematic part of the whole affair is that Boimler had taken seven years of people's personal logs to create the base simulation and make it more realistic. As Rutherford touches on, those are supposed to be private and invading someone's privacy is not cool. But I don't harsh on Geordi for doing something similar in creating holo-Leah Brahms in Booby Trap (though he used only publicly available sources, it's still kinda creepy). So I'm willing to give Boimler a pass.
 
...it's like playing a first person shooter video game in your workplace.
Granted, all crewmembers are on-call 24/7, but they're isolated on a starship, where they work AND live. Yes, they must blow off steam, and when not on-duty (which is at least 2/3 of the day), there's not a single thing that says they can't use the holodeck or any other means of recreation in any way they see fit, provided whatever they do doesn't directly place the ship and its crew in a clear and present danger.
 
If it were feasible to play a customizable first-person shooter with realistic versions of real people the way it is to make a holoprogram, I'm sure it would be the most popular game out there. And I'm also sure that the overwhelming majority of people would be able to distinguish between the fantasy of shooting co-workers, friends, family, etc. and acting on those fantasy impulses in the real world.

The tiny fraction who might not would probably have the same difficulty distinguishing between shooting aliens in Halo or cops in the Grand Theft Auto series versus real people.

I really don't think a completely lifelike murder simulation would be that popular, because most people do not regularly fantasize about murder, as most people are not psychopaths. Maybe if you had access to Star-Trek style phasers - where you could just fire and vaporize someone bloodlessly - it would be a bit more popular. But most people simply don't want to see someone - a stranger or someone they know - bleed out on the floor from bullet or stab wounds.

But I might be a weird outlier here. I have to say that I've been a big fan of computer RPGs for over 20 years. While I like roleplaying, I absolutely can't play against my own morality - I can never bring myself to do an "evil" run within game or even just act like a selfish jerk to NPCs who are being nice to me. I know they aren't real people - that it's all just set up for my amusement - but at the same time I don't have any subconscious desire to be a murderous asshole, so I just play the explorer/do-gooder/hero.
 
We had a video game about a decade ago wherein a player could simulate being Lee Harvey Oswald in the sixth-floor corner window of the Texas School Book Depository. It was widely vilified at the time in the news media as glorifying assassination and this was during a time in history compared to Trek's fictional future where mankind is much more violent and aggressive. It's difficult to picture a holoprogram in the future where murdering one's coworkers is a theme much less even encouraged but human nature being what it is we'll probably never fully rid ourselves of those instincts.
 
But I might be a weird outlier here. I have to say that I've been a big fan of computer RPGs for over 20 years. While I like roleplaying, I absolutely can't play against my own morality - I can never bring myself to do an "evil" run within game or even just act like a selfish jerk to NPCs who are being nice to me. I know they aren't real people - that it's all just set up for my amusement - but at the same time I don't have any subconscious desire to be a murderous asshole, so I just play the explorer/do-gooder/hero.
I'm the same way but I know plenty of people who do. I have played a variety of RPGs with many friends and groups for a while and there are many I know who can compartmentalize that fantasy aspect far better than I ever could. I had a friend in college who worked up a map in a computer game of his work in a FPS format. An old coworker of mine shared with me that she had a fantasy about killing her abusive ex. I just listened to a radio morning show were a caller stated she had thoughts about smashing the face of her old friend who had cheated with her husband. People have violent thoughts. People have violent fantasies. People act them out in a wide variety of different ways without ever people knowing, or causing harm to another person.

So, somehow, when I am told that humans are evolved in this TNG era and would be able to exercise self-control (like Picard lecturing the 20th century businessman about people knowing better than to abuse the com system, or Picard on Wesley about things "don't just happen" on the Enterprise) that I am suppose to worry about people's use of the holodeck? :vulcan:
 
I really don't think a completely lifelike murder simulation would be that popular, because most people do not regularly fantasize about murder, as most people are not psychopaths. Maybe if you had access to Star-Trek style phasers - where you could just fire and vaporize someone bloodlessly - it would be a bit more popular. But most people simply don't want to see someone - a stranger or someone they know - bleed out on the floor from bullet or stab wounds.

But I might be a weird outlier here. I have to say that I've been a big fan of computer RPGs for over 20 years. While I like roleplaying, I absolutely can't play against my own morality - I can never bring myself to do an "evil" run within game or even just act like a selfish jerk to NPCs who are being nice to me. I know they aren't real people - that it's all just set up for my amusement - but at the same time I don't have any subconscious desire to be a murderous asshole, so I just play the explorer/do-gooder/hero.

Again, given the popularity of videogame franchises ranging from Mortal Kombat to Grand Theft Auto, there definitely is a huge market for video games that involve playing the bad guy (or at least, an anti-hero) and killing lots of people. I personally have probably killed over 500 cops/lawmen in the GTA and Red Dead Redemption franchises alone. Would potential players be turned off if the violence was more realistic? Doubt it. Would governments want to restrict or ban such video games? Probably. I have no doubts that if a holodeck existed, right after the sex fantasies the next thing it would be used for would be shoot-em-ups, including those of real people.
 
I think Mariner's little holographic killing spree was supposed to be messed up. It seems to me that that was kind of the point of the whole episode, that it was messed up and by the end it forced Mariner to confront her issues.
 
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