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5 Trek Promotions that should have happened (and Harry's name is NOT on the list)

Riker (both Will and Tom), Worf, Bashir.

And Captains Picard and Sisko probably should've been promoted into the admiralty during the course of their series.

Thomas Riker's lack of promotion was especially egregious. Will was given his promotion to lieutenant commander specifically 'For exceptional valour during the evacuation of the research station on Nervala Four'. Tom's sacrifice was even more exceptionally valorous, yet two years later he still remained a lieutenant. No wonder he joined the Maquis.
 
I'll go along with that. It's possible that Starfleet was kind of at a loss as to what to do to him. I mean, had they ever had a crew member duplicated like that before?

One actually wonders what happened to Tom after the Dominion war was over... maybe the Cardassians returned him after the Dominion war as a goodwill gesture. With their population decimated, they were probably too busy rebuilding to worry about ex Maquis prisoners.
 
Not initially, Data had to guilt Picard into it.During the production of TOS, Roddenberry and others were military veterans.

Roddenberry being an officer in the USAAF would explain why there are so many officers compared to enlisted. Even though they are using Navy type ranks, Star Fleet Command staffs the ships like the Air Force staffs planes. In the Air Force, half the crew of a bomber and all serving on fighters are officers. On US Navy vessels 15 percent of the crew are commissioned officers, the rest are enlisted. In the Navy commissioned officers of the same rank aren't all equal. You have Unrestricted Line officers, Restricted Line officers and Staff officers. You can't command a vessel unless you are an Unrestricted Line officer, no matter your rank. The other branches of the service are slightly different in that regard. I don't remember there being any Warrant Officers in Star Fleet, all the branches of the armed forces except the US Air Force have them.

I hadn't really thought much about it until now. Thanks.
 
I often hear people weren't promoted on Voyager because there wasn''t room for these people to grow into more responsible positions. Fair enough. But, how much wriggle room is there between rank and position? Paris served as the ship's pilot, both as an ensign and as a lieutenant and it didn't seem to make the slightest difference. So that would perhaps mean that Janeway could have promoted some people at least (within reasonable bounds, of course) without immediately giving them a position with more responsibilities, but I think we only ever saw Paris promoted.
 
In "Before and After", Chakotay was captain and Tuvok was presumably first officer, though oddly he still wore his yellow uniform. But, Tom was a lieutenant commander and Harry a full lieutenant (○○ on collar). So obviously, field promotion was possible.
 
I often hear people weren't promoted on Voyager because there wasn''t room for these people to grow into more responsible positions. Fair enough. But, how much wriggle room is there between rank and position? Paris served as the ship's pilot, both as an ensign and as a lieutenant and it didn't seem to make the slightest difference. So that would perhaps mean that Janeway could have promoted some people at least (within reasonable bounds, of course) without immediately giving them a position with more responsibilities, but I think we only ever saw Paris promoted.

Janeway should be able to give "Acting" rank but usually only when the person is replacing a person or job that has the higher rank. It would then become permanent when they are able to contact Star Fleet.

Fleet Admiral Chester Nimitz was a Rear Admiral upper half (two stars) and was promoted to Admiral (four stars) then Fleet Admiral in WWII and skipped the rank of Vice Admiral. When Voyager was able to make contact with Star Fleet, Kim Should at least be a LtJg. and when they return to the Alpha Quadrant he should be able to jump up to Lt.Cdr. especially if he stands Officer of the Deck watch on the bridge and is ready to assume the duties on another vessel with a vacancy. The senior Ensign on a ship has the unofficial title of "Bull Ensign" and gives training to junior ensigns. I wonder who the Bull Ensign on Voyager was.
 
Riker (both Will and Tom), Worf, Bashir.

And Captains Picard and Sisko probably should've been promoted into the admiralty during the course of their series.

Yes.

I actually almost made a special mention for Will. However, since he was offered promotion but declined, I didn't actually list him. Bashir got one promotion (LTJG to Lieutenant), and Worf received two (LTJG to Lieutenant in Season 2, Lieutenant to LCDR in Generations).

Picard was offered the commandancy of the Academy, a Rear Admiral's post, but declined. And you're right about Sisko. Considering the size of the fleet he commanded, he should have been RADM at least.

I could imagine in later seasons of TNG the command arrangement becoming more like in Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, with Admiral Picard in command of the missions, and Captain Riker in command of the Enterprise, with Commander Data as second in command. After "The Best of Both Worlds", for example, would be a good time to promote Picard, Riker, Data, & others. And if Picard only gets promoted to rear admiral lower half instead of a higher rank, that would be due only to suspicion that he might perhaps still be partially susectible to Borg influence.

As for Sisko being promoted to rear admiral, at least, rear admiral seems like a very low rank for someone commanding such a large fleet.

I believe that in "Sacrifice of Angels" Sisko commanded a fleet of 600 ships in battle. Six hundred ships! If a group of 10 ships was commanded by a rear admiral, then a group of 100 ships should be commanded by a vice admiral, and a fleet of 1,000 ships by a full Admiral.

And in historical naval battles ships were often grouped in much smaller units than groups of 10. So if a group of, for example, 5 ships was commanded by a rear admiral, a group of 25 ships should be commanded by a vice admiral, and agroup of 125 should be commanded by a full admiral, and a group of 625 ships by a fleet admiral, and so on.

This article about the battle of Jutland in 1916 shows how many admirals were present in each fleet, despite the two fleets combined having less than half as many ships as the fleet in "Sacrfice of Angels". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_battle_at_Jutland

Suppose thate is a map of the galaxy on your computer screen which shows the entire galactic disc, which is about 100,000 light years in diameter, from "above". Suppose that the United Federation of Planets is large enough to appear as an area on that galactic map instead of as a mere dot with no visible dimension.

Suppose that the Federation has a one star admiral in charge of the defense forces in every group of 10 star systems, a two star dmiral in charge of the defenses of every 100 star systems, and a three star admiral in charge of the defenses of every 1,000 stars systems.

If the Federation had two three star admirals under one four star admiral in charge of all system defense forces, the Federation would rule about 2,000 star systems. Surely that is a vast number of star systems and would make the Federation cover a significant area on galactic maps.

With the stellar density in the region near Earth, a spherical volume of space with a radius of 50 light years and a diameter of 100 light years would contain about 2,096 star systems. A sphere with a diameter of 100 lightyears would spread across one thousandeth of the diameter of the Milky Way Galaxy and would look very small and unimportant in a map of the galaxy.

Suppose that the Federation rules about 2,096,000 stars in a spherical volume about 1,000 light years in diamter.

If the Federation has a one star admiral in charge of the defense forces in every group of 10 star systems, a two star amiral in charge of the defenses of every 100 star systems, a three star admiral in charge of the defenses of every 1,000 stars systems, a four star admiral in charge of the defenses of every 10,000 star systems, a five star admiral in charge of the defenses of every 100,000 star systems, and a six star admiral in charge of the defenses of every 1,000,000 star systems, it would have two six star admirals under a seven star admiral in harge of all system defense forces in its 2,096,000 star systems.

Suppose that in the Federation, one star system out of every 10 to 100 had a highly advanced and industrialized Federation planet.

Thus a Federation 100 light years in diamater would have between 20 and 200 such planets. If each advanced and industrialized Federation planet could build between 10 and 100 major space ships for Starfleet each year, and provide a crew for them, the Federation could produce and crew between 200 and 20,000 major starfleet ships each year.

Thus a Federation 1,000 light years in diamater would have between 20,096 and 200,960 such planets. If each advanced and industrialized Federation planet could build between 10 and 100 major space ships for Starfleet each year, and provide a crew for them, the Federation could produce and crew between 200,960 and 20,096,000 major starfleet ships each year.

So any major space battle between major galactic powers, like the Federation and the Dominion were said to be, is likely to involve fleets of tens and hundreds of thousand of space battleships, and quite possibly millions of space battleships.

Suppose that in a major space battle, every 10 space battleships are commened by a one star admiral, and 10 such groups, 100 space battleships, are commanded by a two star admiral, 1,000 space battleships are commanded by a three star admiral, 10,000 space battleships are commanded by a four star admiral, 100,000 space battleships ae commanded by a five star admiral, and 1,000,000 space battleships are commanded by a six star admiral. That would involve each unit to have ten times as many ships as each unit immediatly below it, and therre are many historical examples of military and naval units containing a lot fewer than ten immediately subordinate units.

So it is quite possible for a space navy of a major galactic power to have far more than 6 levels of admirals to command of each 1,000,000 space battleships in their space fleet.

The rank structure of Starfleet, based on that of the USA and NATO, is totally inadequate in admiral ranks for a space opera space navy of an allegedly major galactic power.. Any major galactic power would have to have more levels of positions requiring admirals, and thus probably more admiral ranks, than all other officer ranks. So an officer who rises to the highest level in that space navy will spend most of his career in the admiral ranks.

And it is quite possible that in such a major galactic power, the space navy would have more ranks for admirals than all the other officer ranks, and all the warrant officer ranks, and all the enlisted ranks, combined. The US navy has 20 ranks below the admiral ranks, and I can imagine that possibly a major galactic power might be so vast it had more than 20 admiral ranks.

So I find it hard to believe that Sisko would command in a major strategic battle in the Dominion War as a mere rear admiral, let alone as a mere captain.
 
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Yes.



I could imagine in later seasons of TNG the command arrangement becoming more like in Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, with Admiral Picard in command of the missions, and Captain Riker in command of the Enterprise, with Commander Data as second in command. After "The Best of Both Worlds", for example, would be a good time to promote Picard, Riker, Data, & others. And if Picard only gets promoted to rear admiral lower half instead of a higher rank, that would be due only to suspicion that he might perhaps still be partially susectible to Borg influence.

As for Sisko being promoted to rear admiral, at least, rear admiral seems like a very low rank for someone commanding such a large fleet.

I believe that in "Sacrifice of Angels" Sisko commanded a fleet of 600 ships in battle. Six hundred ships! If a group of 10 ships was commanded by a rear admiral, then a group of 100 ships should be commanded by a vice admiral, and a fleet of 1,000 ships by a full Admiral.

And in historical naval battles ships were often grouped in much smaller units than groups of 10. So if a group of, for example, 5 ships was commanded by a rear admiral, a group of 25 ships should be commanded by a vice admiral, and agroup of 125 should be commanded by a full admiral, and a group of 625 ships by a fleet admiral, and so on.

This article about the battle of Jutland in 1916 shows how many admirals were present in each fleet, despite the two fleets combined having less than half as many ships as the fleet in "Sacrfice of Angels". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_battle_at_Jutland

Suppose thate is a map of the galaxy on your computer screen which shows the entire galactic disc, which is about 100,000 light years in diameter, from above. Suppose that the United Federation of Planets is large enough to appear as an area on that galactic map instead of as a mere dot with no visible dimension.

Suppose that the Federation has a one star admiral in charge of the defense forces in every group of 10 star systems, a two star dmiral in charge of the defenses of every 100 star systems, and a three star admiral in charge of the defenses of every 1,000 stars systems.

If the Federation had two three star admirals under one four star admiral in charge of all system defense forces, the Federation would rule about 2,000 star systems. Surely that is a vast number of star systems and would make the Federation cover a significant area on galactic maps.

With the stellar density in the region near Earth, a spherical volume of space with a radius of 50 light years and a diameter of 100 light years would contain about 2,096 star systems. A sphere with a diameter of 100 lightyears would spread across one thousandeth of the diameter of the Milky Way Galaxy and would look very small and unimportant in a map of the galaxy.

Suppose that the Federation rules about 2,096,000 stars in a spherical volume about 1,000 light years in diamter.

If the Federation has a one star admiral in charge of the defense forces in every group of 10 star systems, a two star amiral in charge of the defenses of every 100 star systems, a three star admiral in charge of the defenses of every 1,000 stars systems, a four star admiral in charge of the defenses of every 10,000 star systems, a five star admiral in charge of the defenses of every 100,000 star systems, and a six star admiral in charge of the defenses of every 1,000,000 star systems, it would have two six star admirals under a seven star admiral in harge of all system defense forces in its 2,096,000 star systems.

Suppose that in the Federation, one star system out of every 10 to 100 had a highly advanced and industrialized Federation planet.

Thus a Federation 100 light years in diamater would have between 20 and 200 such planets. If each advanced and industrialized Federation planet could build between 10 and 100 major space ships for Starfleet each year, and provide a crew for them, the Federation could produce and crew between 200 and 20,000 major starfleet ships each year.

Thus a Federation 1,000 light years in diamater would have between 20,096 and 200,960 such planets. If each advanced and industrialized Federation planet could build between 10 and 100 major space ships for Starfleet each year, and provide a crew for them, the Federation could produce and crew between 200,960 and 20,096,000 major starfleet ships each year.

So any major space battle between major galactic powers, like the Federation and the Dominion were said to be, is likely to involve fleets of tens and hundreds of thousand of space battleships, and quite possibly millions of space battleships.

Suppose that in a major space battle, every 10 space battleships are commened by a one star admiral, and 10 such groups, 100 space battleships, are commanded by a two star admiral, 1,000 space battleships are commanded by a three star admiral, 10,000 space battleships are commanded by a four star admiral, 100,000 space battleships ae commanded by a five star admiral, and 1,000,000 space battleships are commanded by a six star admiral. That would involve each unit to have ten times as many ships as each unit immediatly below it, and therre are many historical examples of military and naval units containing a lot fewer than ten immediately subordinate units.

So it is quite possible for a space navy of a major galactic power to have far more than 6 levels of admirals to command of each 1,000,000 space battleships in their space fleet.

The rank structure of Starfleet, based on that of the USA and NATO, is totally inadequate in admiral ranks for a space opera space navy of an allegedly major galactic power.. Any major galactic power would have to have more levels of positions requiring admirals, and thus probably more admiral ranks, than all other officer ranks. So an officer who rises to the highest level in that space navy will spend most of his career in the admiral ranks.

And it is quite possible that in such a major galactic power, the space navy would have more ranks for admirals than all the other officer ranks, and all the warrant officer ranks, and all the enlisted ranks, combined. The US navy has 20 ranks below the admiral ranks, and I can imagine that possibly a major galactic power might be so vast it had more than 20 admiral ranks.

So I find it hard to believe that Sisko would command in a major strategic battle in the Dominion War as a mere rear admiral, let alone as a mere captain.

I agree with you, Captain Sisco should have been promoted to Rear Admiral when he was selected by Vice Admiral Ross to assist in planning actions against the Dominion forces, and promoted again to Vice Admiral or frocked (similar to a brevit in the Army / Air Force) to Admiral when he joined the fleet to carry out those plans.
 
Riker (both Will and Tom), Worf, Bashir.

And Captains Picard and Sisko probably should've been promoted into the admiralty during the course of their series.

The Aircraft Carrier I served on had two doctors and the X.O. that had the rank of Captain. The only person who was called Captain was the Commanding Officer / Skipper. Riker and Beverly Crusher could both have been promoted to the rank of O-6. You crew would address Riker as X.O and Crusher as Doctor. Most of the Department heads on the Carrier were Commanders. So that would open the position of Chief Engineer for a promotion to CDR for Gordi as well.
 
It's never made deliberate in DS9, but the writers agreed that Sisko would never make admiralty: his destiny would be spiritual. To that end, those moments when various Admirals question Sisko's commitment to Starfleet are intended to show this gradual waning of Sisko's Starfleet ambitions in favor of accepting his role as a Bajoran spiritual figure: "When I go home, I will go to Bajor."

Sisko was relatively young in DS9 and could expect to serve in Starfleet for several decades more after the last episode, if that was what he wanted. Or Sisko could resign from Starfleet in the last episode if he decided that his destiny was Bajoran, and thus avoid several decades of serving in Starfleet..

So if the writer's decided Sisko's destiny was more as a Bajoran spiritual leader than as a Starfleet officer, that should determine that Sisko would resign from Starfleet when his Starfleet mission to Bajor was fulfilled. And Sisko could resign from Starfleet while holding any rank from the lowest to the highest, so long as the war was over and there were no hypothetical wartime rescricitons on resignation. There wa no logical or story reason for Sisko to have rank above a specific rank or below a specific rank when he resigned from Starfleet.

If the Federation Council decided that Sisko and his people at DS9 were most responsible for winning the Dominion War, they might have rewarded Sisko by appointing Sisko Commander of all Starfleet with the highest rank of Admiral, and if Sisco declined the appointment or resigned after a few days, that would make his decision to leave Starfleet all the more impressive.

In another post, number 27, I have explained all the reasons why the fleet which Sisko commmanded in "Sacrifice of Angels" should have contained tens or hundreds of captains of equal rank to Sisko, as well as admirals higher in rank than Sisko. So Sisko should have been appointed some sort of local or temporary or acting admiral, higher than any other admirals in the fleet, sometime before the mission to retake DS9. And possibly Sisko could have said during the ceremony that he no longer wants to be a Starfleet admiral and when the war is over he will not seek to make his temporary admiral positon permanent, perhaps even say that he will leave Starfleet after the war.

As long as Sisko no longer intends to make Starfleet his life, the rank that he holds when he leaves Starfleet doesn't matter to the story. In fact, the higher the rank Sisko has when he leaves Starfleet, the more impressive his resigning from it will be.

So the DS9 writers could have had no story telling reason to ignore all logic and make a mere captain have such a high command in the Dominion War, when temporary promotions in rank would have been very common.
 
So the DS9 writers could have had no story telling reason to ignore all logic and make a mere captain have such a high command in the Dominion War, when temporary promotions in rank would have been very common.
All of what you have written could be entirely true in the real world, but in this thing called "Star Trek," serving in Starfleet is more than a job or vocation or even a career. It is part of one's identity, down to the very rank they hold. How much dialogue churns over what it means to be a captain, whether it is the responsibilities and privilege or an expression of self-hood. The fact that being "the captain" was not Sisko's "first, best destiny" is not circumstantial. It is a major character development.
 
On the other hand, given the spades of evil/insane admirals we encounter, it probably would also be quite possible to assemble a list of 5 promotions that should not have happened.

More on topic, I've often wondered if people disadvantaged such as Harry Kim got an accelerated promotion track later on to make up for the too many years spent as an Ensign (assuming it was not due to him not meriting that promotion).
 
For Sisko, he is a realitivly young captain, only being promoted a few years back, He should have been, at least temporarily field promotion to Fleet captain or Commodore, so that the other ships captains with more time in rank from getting upset some buck captain trying to tell them what to do.
As for Picard/Riker,
The question is,When the 1701 was Refit, did the enterprise go out for another 5 year mission with Admiral Kirk in charge? or was it just a temp assignment due to V'ger? If its the former and Kirk was the guy in charge, then Spock was more than likely promoted to captain and He ran the ship, with the Admiral in overall charge, Kind of like the Admiral having his own "Flagship"
So why couldn't that happen with Picard/Riker? promote all and have Picard being a commodore or admiral, Riker as Captain, and Data as a full commander and 3rd in line. Picard would get a new office, Riker would take the ready room. Picard running the sector ships from his office, with him on the bridge for important stuff.
 
These are the only Star Trek Promotions I care about...

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:techman:
 
More on topic, I've often wondered if people disadvantaged such as Harry Kim got an accelerated promotion track later on to make up for the too many years spent as an Ensign (assuming it was not due to him not meriting that promotion).

That is a safe assumption. Remember "Non Sequitur". Harry is 8 months out of academy, and he's already served so impressively, his associate says that he could end the day as a lieutenant. That's on track to advance as fast as Will Riker did (Ensign to Commander in 7 years).

Also, the ship is packed with ensigns who weren't promoted; Harry was just the most visible. Seems unlikely that they were all incompetent.

If I had to guess, I would say that most of Voyager's ensigns received two-level promotions on returning to Earth. Those with less than stellar evals might have only gotten one. Harry was doing lieutenant level work for 7 years; he misses being bumped all the way up to LCDR because of the reprimand in his file.

And EDIT: I could even see that not being an issue... Harry is interviewing for an LCDR's operations post on the USS Titan...

CAPTAIN RIKER: "Your performance reviews are excellent, and Janeway speaks highly of you. But there's this reprimand in your file. Care to explain?"

HARRY: "Well, I, uh... slept with an alien chick."

CAPTAIN RIKER: "WHAT?! You got a #%@*&-ing reprimand for THAT?! This is Starfleet, everybody does that! You should've seen me, before I got married." (shakes Harry's hand) "Welcome aboard, Lieutenant Commander Kim."
 
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Actually, in an alternate timeline, Captain Janeway, Commander Chakotay, and Commander Tuvok were all killed by a salt vampire. The Emergency Command Hologram this issued out the following promotions:

  • Acting Captain Seven of Nine
  • First Officer Tom Paris
  • Second Officer B'Elanna Torres
  • Commander Hot Background Maquis security gueardguard who never speaks, now Chief of Security
  • Lieutenant Nelix
  • Captain's Assistant Naomi Wildman
  • And finally, Ensign Icheb.
 
What I'd have liked was since Geordi got promoted to Lt. Cmdr pretty quick I wish that had kept going, with one promotion a year, so by First Contact he was Fleet Admiral.
 
Well, Harry gained a total of 16 rank ups in 5 deleted timelines. If he'd been allowed to keep all those promotions instead of having them erase, he'd be an 11-star admiral by now.
 
In "Before and After", Chakotay was captain and Tuvok was presumably first officer, though oddly he still wore his yellow uniform. But, Tom was a lieutenant commander and Harry a full lieutenant (○○ on collar). So obviously, field promotion was possible.

Sure, but that was in a timeline where a lot of the crew were killed (including Janeway herself), leaving a lot of positions open. If ranks are somehow tied to positions (within certain limits), that could explain it. Also, perhaps Janeway was a stickler for protocol and perhaps Chakotay, as Captain, less so.
 
Under Starfleet protocol, an ensign who does good work gets promoted. Just as Tuvok and Tom were.
 
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