Star Trek novelisations. It’s all fanfic really.
Too many posts in a row. I go now.
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So how important is canon, then?
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Star Trek novelisations. It’s all fanfic really.
Too many posts in a row. I go now.
In some ways I agree; in others, not so much. I'd argue that the writing was much better when they had pro writers at Bantam doing them, pros who become fanfic writers, if you will. Pocket's approach had been more to bring fanfic writers in to write pro. Some i've enjoyed, but many have let their fanfic roots show too much for my tastes.
Since TOS is credited with creating the modern fanfiction phenomona, and it is a huge deal, that doesn’t surprise me re: Pocket Books.
Bantam Star Trek, Tech manuals, fanfic, conventions, reruns, - that’s all they had to live off of until The Motion Picture.
It definitely had its melodramatic moments but it felt no different than other science fiction I was reading at the time. Probably if I reread it now I would pick up on more of it, but it felt very Star Trek to me in terms of pacing, character introspection, and exploration of consequences in the world.
Now, all of this to say that the only book I am referencing is "Yesterday's Son" which appealed to me because it explored Vulcan culture, the Guardian of Forever, Romulans, and Spock being a father. Writing that out I can see the whole "fan fic" background thing but it doesn't read like a fan fiction. It reads like natural consequences in universe.
Mileage will vary, obviously.
Well I have no idea what any of that means, but I do appreciate the effort.
Enjoy your time here. And feel free to use the multi-quote function (as I will here) to consolidate your responses into one post.
You’re not wrong. Luckily that will be some other moderator’s problem. At least for the first 6 months.
For a long time my policy has been that I like what I like, and others like what they like, and I'll only use terms like good or bad when I can back them up with some kind of metric. I like listening to AC/DC, particularly when, as a friend says, "I feel like throwing a brick through a window." I never tell people that they're good, though.
So, how important is canon?
For me, as important as the amount of times Vulcans have sex
For me, as important as the amount of times Vulcans have sex
For all the back and forth, Vulcan sexuality is definitely a muddled issue. If one is married to the idea that Vulcans never have sex outside of Pon Farr, they should definitely steer clear of many of the novels over the years.
I'll let Morgan respond:
(So according to Morgan, the shows are fanon and the novels are fanfic - there is no canon! XD)
You're saying that all statements about it were a lie or that all Vulcans believed and spread a lie, cannot speak strictly for themselves properly, or that it is a standard reply (which would not make it wrong). I guess you still won't substantiate those claims though. Did you notice that it's Vulcans, who avoid lying whenever they can, and are as rational and logical as possible? Oh I know, that's fanon for you. XD
Then on-screen visual evidence and repeated statements about their blood color don't matter at all? Then there is no canon, never has been, and never will be. I know that some people here have the personal opinion that Vulcans can easily have three-pointed purple ears, but would that also not contradict canon, regardless of you caring about it or not?
Do you know anthing about that condition? Is it relevant to this discussion? Make a proper diagnosis first, if you can
Just watch the episode or read the script:
SPOCK: But insensitive, to send such a beautiful woman into exile. The cold must've affected me more than I realised. Please pay no attention. I'm not myself. I'm behaving disgracefully. I have eaten animal flesh and I have enjoyed it. What is wrong with me? I tell you you're beautiful. But you are beautiful. Is it so wrong to tell you so?
MCCOY: Are you trying to kill me, Spock? Is that what you really want? Think. What are you feeling? Rage? Jealousy? Have you ever had those feelings before?
SPOCK: This is impossible. Impossible. I am a Vulcan.
MCCOY: The Vulcan you knew won't exist for another five thousand years. Think, man. What's happening on your planet right now, this very moment?
SPOCK: My ancestors are barbarians. Warlike barbarians.
MCCOY: Who nearly killed themselves off with their own passions. Spock, you're reverting into your ancestors five thousand years before you were born!
SPOCK: I've lost myself. I do not know who I am. Can we go back?
"On Vulcan" is clearly a common expression like "On Earth", meaning what humans do. Or do you think a Klingon visiting Vulcan turns logical and passionless while he is on the planet? XD
I brought up mating=procreation vs. sex for fun before. Guess you totally missed it. A dispassionate and physically and emotionally distant culture might not seek that kind of pleasure, you know, if they seek pleasure at all...
If they're consistently saying A and not B, then A is much more likely than B, and there is little reason to assume B over A.
The whole thing started when they said that explicit statements from TOS, ENT, and VOY are fanon. Is it wrong to challenge such strange positions?Well, sure. You've been here all of what, 5 minutes?
Talk to me when you've been here 18 years.
The whole canon thing has been done to death more times than I can count. It just won't die. Like a homunculus.
And of course since there's no solution (because it's make-believe), it just keeps going in never-ending circles.
But yeah, it's really great....
Novels are vetted, first by Paramount, now by CBS. The tie-in writers are required to stay consistent with the shows. So obviously, neither organization had an issue with Vulcans mating outside of Pon Farr.
Make of it what you will.
Basee in some studies I've read then copper based oxygen carriers can turn blue. Also, some illnesses can cause humans to have green blood.
Regardless, it was a fun observation of what actual science had to say about not copper based blood, not canon status or not.
Was that always the case? Many novels are inconsistent with the shows.
That is true
Very early on? Probably not. Once Paramount realized there was money in the novels? That was when they became more strict with the tie-in writers. We’ve had Richard Arnold, Marco Palmieri, Margaret Clark, John Van Citters who all seemed to take their jobs very seriously.
Star Trek: Vanguard #1 “Harbinger” featured Lt. Commander T’Prynn who had sexual relations outside of Pon Farr was published in 2005. Plus there are many other books from well before that time.
None of that is biological.
@NCC-73515
It doesn’t matter whether or not a Vulcan’s inhibitions are affected by drugs, time travel, or crack.
If they do not have to have sex or die, then they have a choice.
If they do not have to have sex or die, and they still have sex, how is that any different to a human getting drunk in a bar and having sex with someone they normally wouldn’t feel the urge to? Or allowing themselves to give into urges they already had but would normally suppress?
They are still having sex despite not being in pon far.
It doesn’t matter whether or not a Vulcan’s inhibitions are affected by drugs, time travel, or crack.
If they do not have to have sex or die, then they have a choice.
If they do not have to have sex or die, and they still have sex, how is that any different to a human getting drunk in a bar and having sex with someone they normally wouldn’t feel the urge to? Or allowing themselves to give into urges they already had but would normally suppress?
They are still having sex despite not being in pon far.
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This portion of the thread summed up in two sentences.
Have to have a well-honed appreciation for the humour in the absurd.
This is very true. I haven't kept up with the thread until today. Then I looked back and saw that this stretches back 10 pages!
Holy shit.
physiology, brain function, mental states, are biology. prove me wrong. why wouldn't it be? what else would it be?
what do you think novels are: canon? fanon? fanfic?
your point seems to be that they choose to have sex whenever, my point is that they don't. canon evidence points to them only doing it every 7 years. the difference to drunk humans losing control is that they're vulcans. did you really miss how rational, controlled, and distant vulcans are? or are you oddly ignoring that?
well... in canon, we bow to the absurd.
Not sure why you addressed me specifically, I wasn't talking about Vulcan sex, just my grandfather's reaction to science fiction.
Once every seven of nine years during Porn-Far Spork pulls down his space pants and gives Captain Quirk a great big forking helping of that Trellium-D.
That's canyon, according to the Travelling Roddenberrys.
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