Yup. Totally behind that!
Michelle Forbes in Voyager
- Thread starter Bry_Sinclair
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I would have liked that, too. But on 1990's American tv... even if Berman liked the idea, which I doubt... Both the captain AND the first officer female? Coming to think of it, I can't think of a recent show that does it. OK, I'm not watching many currnet shows, but Trek sure doesn't do it. DSC made their protaganist a woman and not the captain, so every captain had to be male. (Giorgiou was just a kind of prologue, then they killed her off.)
As for Shelby, I like Mulgrew and the Janeway character, it's just the writing should have been better for her. But I must admit I don't really remember Shelby.
I'll be honest, I didn't like Janeway much, but my appreciation for Mulgrew well, grew, after I saw the audition for the first Captain Janeway, and I saw how more in charge Mulgrew was. Janeway is still far from my favorite Trek character, but I have no problem with Mulgrew's acting.
All that being said, I loved Shelby. She was only in two episodes and left a strong impression, even in "Best of Both Worlds" where she easily could've been lost as everyone focused on Locutus, the Borg, Captain Riker, etc. I liked Shelby's raw ambition and how she pushed Riker. Having her as captain of the Voyager would've been really sweet to see when they ran into the Borg. It would've added even more gravitas to "Unity" and "Scorpion". Also, with Shelby's history with the Borg that many Trek fans would already know about, it would add something even more special to her relationship with Seven than Janeway had with Seven.
When a guest character was only in two episodes, never given a first name, and had to integrate with one of the biggest storylines and established characters of a show from 30 years ago (gah!!), then you know the writers, actor and director did something right. One of TNG's biggest failings was not making her a member of the main cast from S4 onwards.
I also don't see Shelby becoming so "motherly" with the crew, something that always irked me with Janeway. Seeing her going head-to-head with the Borg would also have been epic, I could even see her doing a Picard and going out for blood when facing off against the Collective. Had it been Shelby/Ro leading the series, then it would've been a great moment of growth for Ro, knowing the thirst for revenge but knowing the stakes are against them and that Shelby has to put the need to get back home ahead of the desire for hurting the Borg.
Wow, all that just sparked in my head as I was typing. With the right characters, the series pretty much writes itself
When a guest character was only in two episodes, never given a first name, and had to integrate with one of the biggest storylines and established characters of a show from 30 years ago (gah!!), then you know the writers, actor and director did something right. One of TNG's biggest failings was not making her a member of the main cast from S4 onwards.
I also don't see Shelby becoming so "motherly" with the crew, something that always irked me with Janeway. Seeing her going head-to-head with the Borg would also have been epic, I could even see her doing a Picard and going out for blood when facing off against the Collective. Had it been Shelby/Ro leading the series, then it would've been a great moment of growth for Ro, knowing the thirst for revenge but knowing the stakes are against them and that Shelby has to put the need to get back home ahead of the desire for hurting the Borg.
Wow, all that just sparked in my head as I was typing. With the right characters, the series pretty much writes itself
Though Picard is my favorite captain I've always loved the idea, once I learned about it, that they were mulling Picard not coming back, and having Riker as captain and Shelby as first officer. Even though I would've liked to see Picard return, at some point, I think it would've been a nice change of pace to do a season or half-season with Captain Riker and Commander Shelby.
As for Captain Shelby on Voyager, I agree that she wouldn't have been as motherly, or motherly at all. Though I could also see her becoming less abrasive as part of her character arc. She might even become less of a perfectionist as she learned how to value what the Maquis brought to the table with their way of doing things. However I see that as a process over time. I would've liked to have seen Shelby balance her desire to get home against her ambition, which might pull her to exploring as much as she could, which would slow down their journey. I could see the philosophical, and perhaps even physical fights, between Shelby and Ro being more explosive. And both of them would have a special relationship or understanding with/of Picard and that could be factored into their initial antipathy but later on into them building a trusting partnership.
The maturity from that growing relationship Captain Shelby might then use to learn how to trust and welcome Seven into the crew.
In my re-imagined Voyager I would like to keep Chakotay but not sure where he would fit now. Perhaps in the Seska role, though that would mean getting rid of Seska, and she is one of my favorite Voyager characters. I could also put him in the Paris role though I think Paris works fine there, albeit I would've made him harder edged and perhaps a bit more mercenary.
Chakotay added as a science officer perhaps, though make him a little younger, though maybe keep him in Starfleet, so he has conflict between doing what was right for his people versus his duty to Starfleet and choosing the latter--maybe include he had a sibling who was also in the fleet but went AWOL and sided with the Maquis. Or else include him as the ship's counsellor, though far older than most of the crew and a font of wisdom--though that does get into Native American stereotype of the "medicine man". Or maybe he could take over at Ops, replace Harry "duller than paint drying" Kim.
Paris needed the Locarno streak, make him brash, cocky and arrogant (rather than the bad boy with a heart of gold). Seska would definitely need to be kept aboard, literally--none of that joining the Kazon on some batshit crazy notion that was never thought out.
One character I would happily remove would be the EMH (I know, fan favourite who everyone seems to love), but I think having the resident rookie onboard being an ensign starting their Internship in sickbay would be far more interesting. The last trained medical professional is a kid who is just out of the Academy and now has the lives of 150-ish people on his hands, with no support, so if/when he messes up its all on him. Kes coming in to serve as his assistant could be as much about keeping him calm and reassured as he finds his feet, whilst also training her up.
Paris needed the Locarno streak, make him brash, cocky and arrogant (rather than the bad boy with a heart of gold). Seska would definitely need to be kept aboard, literally--none of that joining the Kazon on some batshit crazy notion that was never thought out.
One character I would happily remove would be the EMH (I know, fan favourite who everyone seems to love), but I think having the resident rookie onboard being an ensign starting their Internship in sickbay would be far more interesting. The last trained medical professional is a kid who is just out of the Academy and now has the lives of 150-ish people on his hands, with no support, so if/when he messes up its all on him. Kes coming in to serve as his assistant could be as much about keeping him calm and reassured as he finds his feet, whilst also training her up.
I could take Ro replacing either Chakotay or Paris. Chakotay was as bland as bland can be, and Paris was good but they never wrote him to his potential and instead just gave him 10,000 talents.
An interesting idea has just occurred to me as I was thinking up another way to reboot Voyager.
It would have Shelby as Captain, Ro as XO/former Maquis Captain, Tuvok still as Security Chief, Chakotay as the Chief Engineer, Kim as the bad-boy Maquis pilot, a reworked Torres as Ops Officer, Kes as Cook/Hydroponics/Medic (with such a short lifespan, I don't see the Ocampa needing much sleep), and introducing Bolian Ensign Xar as the intern-turned-CMO, and Jarak as the young Kazon who risks his life to save Kes from the camp and ends up going along for the ride.
Anyways, my thought was that rather than have Tuvok as the undercover Starfleet officer in with the Maquis, that Ro would be the one who would be the double agent. In her last TNG appearance, have her receive a new set of classified orders from Intel to get her into the Maquis (though have it that the audience doesn't see what they are), making it look as though she betrays Picard and her shipmates. Voyager is then sent in to track her down after she misses a scheduled check in, leading some to believe she has betrayed them. This would be an interesting angle for Ro, as she would be very torn between both sides (as we saw she was in Preemptive Strike). I also wouldn't have it revealed in the pilot, though it definitely comes out later on in S1, which could lead to a nice subplot about a Maquis mutiny when they learn they've been lied to by their former Captain.
It would have Shelby as Captain, Ro as XO/former Maquis Captain, Tuvok still as Security Chief, Chakotay as the Chief Engineer, Kim as the bad-boy Maquis pilot, a reworked Torres as Ops Officer, Kes as Cook/Hydroponics/Medic (with such a short lifespan, I don't see the Ocampa needing much sleep), and introducing Bolian Ensign Xar as the intern-turned-CMO, and Jarak as the young Kazon who risks his life to save Kes from the camp and ends up going along for the ride.
Anyways, my thought was that rather than have Tuvok as the undercover Starfleet officer in with the Maquis, that Ro would be the one who would be the double agent. In her last TNG appearance, have her receive a new set of classified orders from Intel to get her into the Maquis (though have it that the audience doesn't see what they are), making it look as though she betrays Picard and her shipmates. Voyager is then sent in to track her down after she misses a scheduled check in, leading some to believe she has betrayed them. This would be an interesting angle for Ro, as she would be very torn between both sides (as we saw she was in Preemptive Strike). I also wouldn't have it revealed in the pilot, though it definitely comes out later on in S1, which could lead to a nice subplot about a Maquis mutiny when they learn they've been lied to by their former Captain.
From the sound of Shelby, liberating Seven would have been a resounding No, she'd probably have assisted Chakotay (or Ro?) throwing her out an airlock... :-D
Where's the EMH in this scenario? As one of the standout characters of the show, for me and many viewers, taking him out of the equation would be a tough sell.
Kim as a Bad Boy anything is a much tougher sell though.
As I found Paris more interesting than Kim, I'd rather keep him and lose Kim.Some of this intrigues me, but in the form as provided I'm not sure it would ultimately be better. Though it would have been nice to see more Kazon who weren't one-dimensional schmucks.
He was one of the biggest negatives for me, part of the reason I stopped watching after a while, so since it's my re-imagining I left him out.
I was definitely thinking of some recasting of Kim and Chakotay with some more interesting and dynamic actors. It was originally going to be Paris, but then I thought I'd have to do a Trek and ensure some tokenism was upheld. The helmsman would also be a very different character, not a "bad-boy with a heart of gold" but really more arrogant and with an inflated sense of self worth, not taking responsibility for the incident that saw them kicked out of Starfleet, and with only as much loyalty to the Maquis so long as the latinum came in.Kim as a Bad Boy anything is a much tougher sell though.
More character development and story arcs would be central, these people would be pushed to their limits, and making more of the Starfleet/Maquis division. I would also use the Rick Sternbach design for Voyager, I love the longer, more-angular aesthetics, definitely had a more rugged appearance that just worked for me. I did wonder about keeping in a Neelix-esque character as a wheeler-dealer trader/guide/smuggler, a sort of blending of Neelix, Quark and Han Solo. The Kazon were a very bland enemy, but as someone with a hugely different look at the universe and approach to things than even the Maquis, having one onboard could've provided some interesting new angles on things--I could also see him being someone with a lot of growth potential, maybe discovering a talent for science and being given the chance to explore a new path for himself, instead of the brutality and violence he was raised in.
I'm not sure we ever learned enough about him for me to have a strong opinion on the matter. He worked well as a recurring character though. I found it disappointing that around the time the Seska arc was kicking into high gear the series seemed to be developing a number of recurring engineering staff, and then one by one they got picked off.
I'd have no issue with him on the main cast, though it would be unprecedented to have two members from the same species that weren't human, which would've been interesting--see how the writers might manage to separate out two Vulcan characters.
It's amazing there was anyone left in engineering, following Carey's disappearing act for five years, Darwin's murder (ok not a character we ever met but still the poor guy got his head bashed in), Suder's incarceration and later death, Seska's defection and later death, Jonas' betrayal and death, Dalby never being seen again, Chell's disappearing act for six years, and Hogan becoming dinosaur kibble. It's no wonder there as never any consistency with the crew numbers
It's amazing there was anyone left in engineering, following Carey's disappearing act for five years, Darwin's murder (ok not a character we ever met but still the poor guy got his head bashed in), Suder's incarceration and later death, Seska's defection and later death, Jonas' betrayal and death, Dalby never being seen again, Chell's disappearing act for six years, and Hogan becoming dinosaur kibble. It's no wonder there as never any consistency with the crew numbers
Maybe in Pre-emtive Strike, she’s doing a deep undercover role and she’s the one infiltrating the Maquis and not Tuvok. I’ve never even thought of Shelby as Captain. That would’ve been amazing. Forbes is a great actresss and it was good to see here in BSG.
I’m nearly finished my entire Boy series rewatch and will post once completed.... my biggest source of disappointment is the lack of recurring characters, like Seska, Carey, Delaney sisters, Bolian Chell, Equinox crew etc etc. They could’ve done some great storytelling. There are some brilliant episodes I’ve semi forgotten. It’s sad now I’m nearing the end.
I’m nearly finished my entire Boy series rewatch and will post once completed.... my biggest source of disappointment is the lack of recurring characters, like Seska, Carey, Delaney sisters, Bolian Chell, Equinox crew etc etc. They could’ve done some great storytelling. There are some brilliant episodes I’ve semi forgotten. It’s sad now I’m nearing the end.
^ I always think Seska should've become a Hannibal Lecter-esque character, locked up in her quarters that people turn too when they need some more underhanded help with bad situations (though she would then become a more interesting and complex character than Chakotay or Kim, though I would love to see her take over as Ops Officer, when they started to finally trust her).
I just finished a rewatch myself. It was kind of a bummer when getting towards the end. I agree with having a few more recurring characters especially on a ship stranded in space with only 150ish people onboard. I am sure cost was the primary reason we did not see that. It was amusing seeing Ayala appear in almost every episode though. He didn't speak much but he would occasionally get some scathing smirks or eye rolls off.
All true and very interesting if written well, but I doubt the showrunners would ever allow that kind of conflict between Shelby and Janeway nor Ro and Janeway. Janeway was too important for them for her to be vulnerable or wrong against her subordinates. What everyone here is talking about are some interesting ideas but it could only work with a different Janeway, Kate Mulgrew's Kathryn Janeway was an immovable object.
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