The Episode Dax?
- Thread starter WesleysDisciple
- Start date
We don't need to. It's just an example of the Federation agreeing to a treaty where one party is restricted in one specific area and the other party is not. Just as it (seemingly) did with the Klaestrons.
Roddenberry said something like 'Our heroes don't sneak around.' Accepting that attitude, then the Federation gave up something they didn't do anyway, and in return got... well, we don't know!
Well, the basic premise of DS9 is already telling in this respect. Supposedly, the UFP and the Cardassian Union fought a bitter war in the recent past. Supposedly, the latter held on to Bajor, possibly the crown jewel of their possessions, till the bitter end. But supposedly, the Union nevertheless was brought to its knees, forced to cease all aggression towards the UFP - easy to accept when we witness how utterly impotent their armaments are in "The Wounded".
Yet as the series opens, Bajor sits in the middle of neutral space, not in the middle of UFP possessions. This despite it also being explicated, basically by the end of the first season already, as a literal next-door neighbor to the Cardassian home system!
So the scenario we're supposed to believe in appears to be that the UFP swept through the Union like the US in the Pacific, only stopping short of Okinawa (perhaps to avoid a final bloodbath), declared victory - and then completely withdrew, leaving the neighborhood "neutral" (but in practice still devoted to the Union, as basically every neighbor is later shown to maintain an alliance in that direction and/or demonstrate hatred towards the UFP).
Not unthinkable: the US did give up the Philippines, say, instead of reclaiming them for tactical or strategic purposes. (Also, it had no interest in letting the European nations get back to their local colonial possessions, but that's contrary to the Trek scenario where the victors supposedly are not divided.) Still, "our heroes" really give their chivalrous reputation a new shine here, giving up all the conquered land to no apparent gain.
Timo Saloniemi
Yet as the series opens, Bajor sits in the middle of neutral space, not in the middle of UFP possessions. This despite it also being explicated, basically by the end of the first season already, as a literal next-door neighbor to the Cardassian home system!
So the scenario we're supposed to believe in appears to be that the UFP swept through the Union like the US in the Pacific, only stopping short of Okinawa (perhaps to avoid a final bloodbath), declared victory - and then completely withdrew, leaving the neighborhood "neutral" (but in practice still devoted to the Union, as basically every neighbor is later shown to maintain an alliance in that direction and/or demonstrate hatred towards the UFP).
Not unthinkable: the US did give up the Philippines, say, instead of reclaiming them for tactical or strategic purposes. (Also, it had no interest in letting the European nations get back to their local colonial possessions, but that's contrary to the Trek scenario where the victors supposedly are not divided.) Still, "our heroes" really give their chivalrous reputation a new shine here, giving up all the conquered land to no apparent gain.
Timo Saloniemi
This is not completely true. The US did give the Philippines their independence after WW II, but retained major military bases for many decades after. That served any strategic purpose we had.
The United Nations generally took a dim view of holding colonies against the wishes of the population. It was seen as two-faced to attack Germany, Italy, and Japan for taking other countries by force, while overlooking what the British, French, and Dutch were doing, and what the US was doing with the Philippines. Popular opinion all over was that colonialism was a relic of the prewar time that should be given up. But the US didn't insist with our WW II allies - the French stayed in Indochina and Algeria for quite some time. The British government tried to intervene in Egypt in 1956 but there was worldwide outcry including from the British public as well as the US. The UN treaty called for a vote of the Security Council before military action except in self-defense, and it's pretty hard to claim self-defense when a great power goes up against some tiny weak country. On a practical level too, once a local population has strong nationalistic feelings it's pretty easy for nationalists to get ahold of rifles at least, and they stop being worth the trouble for a colonial power to try to control.
I'm not sure how much sweeping through there was. Most of the fighting we hear about is at the Federation-Cardassian border (e.g. Setlik 3) and I don't think there was ever any indication of major incursions into Cardassian space. In fact, considering the terms of the peace treaty it seems more likely that the war was fought to a stalemate rather than Starfleet winning a decisive victory.
To be strictly accurate, Britain, France and Israel tried to intervene in Egypt in 56, under a rather grubby secret alliance that embarrassed them all once revealed (the idea was that Israel gets into a war with Egypt, and the other two then come in as 'peacekeepers'), and disowned by the US.
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Yet the Cardassian Union no longer exists after the war in the direction of Bajor. The system next door to the homeworld is the only one remaining under Cardassian control, and all surrounding space is considered "neutral". This despite us later learning that the Union still features lots of star systems, supposedly in other directions.
A huge pit carved by Starfleet into the rough sphere that was the Union seems the most likely model here. Why else would Cardassia fail to possess the worlds around Bajor? Surely there would be a need for buffer systems if nothing else, and "neutrality" doesn't sound like something Cardassia would promote in its clients or outright possessions.
Perhaps attacking Cardassia Prime from the direction of Bajor was advantageous to attacking it from the direction of Setlik or the eventual DMZ or whatnot. Possibly there were lots of worlds to be liberated in that direction, while other directions only held Cardassian-populated colonies? Or then this direction was less fortified than others, or whatever.
Timo Saloniemi
On a side note, I always had a soft spot for that judge who began by telling everyone bluntly that as a 100 year old, she had no patience to squander listening to superfluous language because she "intended being here until supper, not senility.". But that also asked Jadzia at the end as a favour to "Live, Jadzia Dax. Live a long, fresh and wonderful life.".
I always loved that judge, too. Great line.
And the last line wasn't the judge... it was Tandro's wife.
And the last line wasn't the judge... it was Tandro's wife.
^ you are absolutely correct, I remembered incorrectly.
Wonder if Tandro ever apolagized to Jadzeia
Still he put a lot of effort in persecuting a innocent person.
Also just thought of this couldnt Jadzeia have asked for a private audience witth just the Judge, Tandro, And a telepath or Truth verifier.
since that way It wouldnt have gone outside the room the real truth of the generals actions.
Also just thought of this couldnt Jadzeia have asked for a private audience witth just the Judge, Tandro, And a telepath or Truth verifier.
since that way It wouldnt have gone outside the room the real truth of the generals actions.
It didnt Couldnt she if the Generals wife hadnt come to save her have done what I Said and kept the public from finding out but blackened Tandros Father in his eyes.
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