When SHOULD Riker have left?

[LeadHead]

When Should RIker have left? When He wanted to, in the crew of the Enterprise he found a family, which despite him saying so many times that he wanted the Captaincy more than anything else, he wanted to have what he was denied when he was young by his mothers death and his fathers abandonment. He developed a family and a purpose, his desire to be Captain was less important to him than that. Once he was ready to go, he accepted a promotion to the Titan.

When would it have happened in a more realistic universe? After he successfully defeated the Borg, he would have been posted to a new ship or possibly Picard wouldn't have gotten command of the Enterprise back due to his ordeal. If not then, both Riker and Data would've been given their own commands during the Dominon War, given the losses they would've needed highly experienced officers in command of their armada. Troi and Geordi possibly as well.

 

[Sisko_is_my_captain]

He should have left the second Lwaxana Troi beamed aboard. I know I would.

I would have asked her out.

 

[DonIago]

When Should RIker have left? When He wanted to, in the crew of the Enterprise he found a family, which despite him saying so many times that he wanted the Captaincy more than anything else, he wanted to have what he was denied when he was young by his mothers death and his fathers abandonment. He developed a family and a purpose, his desire to be Captain was less important to him than that. Once he was ready to go, he accepted a promotion to the Titan.

When would it have happened in a more realistic universe? After he successfully defeated the Borg, he would have been posted to a new ship or possibly Picard wouldn't have gotten command of the Enterprise back due to his ordeal. If not then, both Riker and Data would've been given their own commands during the Dominon War, given the losses they would've needed highly experienced officers in command of their armada. Troi and Geordi possibly as well.

The idea that Riker should have left when he wanted to seems at odds with many, if not all of the other transfer requests we've seen in Trek, in which, unless the transfer was actually requested by the person being transferred, they didn't seem to have a lot of say in the matter.

It seems as though Starfleet offered him captaincies without really caring whether he accepted them...because if they had cared, it would have been an order, not an offer. That they didn't force the issue after the Borg attack or during the Dominion War seems to imply that either they didn't really need captains that badly, or they'd essentially given up on him by that point.

 

[Mojochi]

The idea that Riker should have left when he wanted to seems at odds with many, if not all of the other transfer requests we've seen in Trek, in which, unless the transfer was actually requested by the person being transferred, they didn't seem to have a lot of say in the matter.

It seems as though Starfleet offered him captaincies without really caring whether he accepted them...because if they had cared, it would have been an order, not an offer. That they didn't force the issue after the Borg attack or during the Dominion War seems to imply that either they didn't really need captains that badly, or they'd essentially given up on him by that point.

I don't think we've ever seen anyone forced to take a promotion, have we? I mean sometimes people have stepped in to fill a void, in the absence of a fallen officer or something, but that's part of their current assignment. I do agree with your final point though

If I had to make sense of their actions, I think they did care at first, but they probably understood him taking the Enterprise 2nd spot over the Drake command. It does make a little sense if you feel like you aren't ready. He was moving pretty fast, apparently. I have to imagine no one understood why he turned down the Aries. Call it what you will, but you can have a family anywhere you want, if you work at it. Ultimately he just chose to stay in the shadow of another commander.

and the Melbourne was their last offer, because yes, if he isn't going to move by then, they've given up. Maybe they don't need captains terribly, because there's always someone willing to move up, but at one point they wanted HIM, because of some of his traits. I figure that attitude changed eventually, & people just passed him by... a lot of people.

 

[USS Firefly]

I would have asked her out.

Then you are a brave person

 

[at Quark's]

When should Riker have left?

Perhaps the moment when Picard ordered him by commlink to the bridge to dock manually in Encounter at Farpoint, which was blatantly unnecessary (I mean, both the procedure itself and the way of telling Riker to do it), just to make it obvious to everyone he was being tested

Seriously though, when reviewing those very first scenes, their first encounter seems almost adversarial (whereas I think the intent was just to show that Picard tried to keep some distance from the rest of the crew).

 

[Paul Weaver]

Riker didn't even do the docking, he just ordered Data and OBrien to do it

"Watch your roll angle conn"

He also spent the entire time looking at the screen - no actual data on it regarding translation, orientation or velocity

 

[at Quark's]

Riker didn't even do the docking, he just ordered Data and OBrien to do it

"Watch your roll angle conn"

He also spent the entire time looking at the screen - no actual data on it regarding translation, orientation or velocity

Having rewatched the scene, perhaps this was what Picard actually expected him to do. After all, he is the first officer, first day on the job, and could logically be expected to be evaluated in that capacity (i.e. overseeing such maneuvers rather than performing them in person). Suppose though that O' Brien messed up and the maneuver didn't go smoothly, through no actual fault of Riker - how would Picard have reacted? But that's probably just the age old problem all middle managers run into ...

Of course, the entire 'assignment' could also be interpreted as a concise test of the bridge crew - to see if they were capable both in their positions (i.e. the person at the helm as helmsman, Riker as XO to oversee everything, etc) and in cooperating as a crew - but then you'd expect Picard to monitor the manual docking quite closely, preferably by being on the bridge himself - and there are no real indications he actually did.

 

[JesterFace]

Starfleet seems to take transferring officers and promotions differently we're used to.
They offer positions, not command people to take certain posts, then it's up to the officer what to do.

That maybe different when you're fresh out of the academy and in the beginning of your career, in that case you may have to do exactly what you're told, or maybe choose from only few options. Later when you go up the ranks you get to say more about what you want to do and where you want to go, even decline a promotion like Riker did.

 

[DonIago]

That may be the case for senior staff, but we saw Riker, Troi and others doing crew evaluations and in some cases discussing transferring people out of their posts.

 

[Mojochi]

That may be the case for senior staff, but we saw Riker, Troi and others doing crew evaluations and in some cases discussing transferring people out of their posts.

I don't remember them talking about yanking people from posts though. Mostly I recall them entertaining where people would go, when they'd either requested it, or shown interest etc...

It seems pretty normal to me. Openings come up. People bid on it, the senior officers choose who the best candidate is

 

[Tenacity]

With Sisko, the impression I got was that if he didn't resign - retire he was going to DS9 as it's commander.

He wasn't "offered" the position.

Picard selected Riker as his first officer from availible officers, did Riker have a option?

 

[DonIago]

Well, the senior staff certainly talked about transferring Barclay. It doesn't make sense that there wouldn't be options for transferring people out of postings for which they were proving unsuitable.

 

[gakelly]

The writers didn't do him any favors by having him turn down a command before he arrived on the Enterprise. I think that really kind of hurt his character because it would be more believable it were a surprise to be given the 1st officer position on the Enterprise.
Also, in Encounter at Farpoint, in one of his logs, Picard says that he is assured a qualified officer is coming to take over his 1st officer position. In the Pegasus( I think), he tells the admiral that he picked Riker. Do captains typically get to pick their first officer in the navy?

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

The writers didn't do him any favors by having him turn down a command before he arrived on the Enterprise. I think that really kind of hurt his character because it would be more believable it were a surprise to be given the 1st officer position on the Enterprise.

I think this is one of those things that seems odd mainly because of the "all Captains are Captain-by-rank" thing that runs through most of Star Trek. Riker was apparently a Lieutenant Commander as the XO of the Hood, so in the RW his two options (CO of the light cruiser Drake and XO of the exploration cruiser Enterprise) are actually likely to be equal in terms of substantive promotion and Riker not unreasonably chose the higher profile assignment.

 

[Mojochi]

Well, the senior staff certainly talked about transferring Barclay. It doesn't make sense that there wouldn't be options for transferring people out of postings for which they were proving unsuitable.

Barclay was a disciplinary issue. That's a different animal really. I suppose unsatisfactory evals might lead to them forcing a reassignment on a person, but that isn't an unusual thing in reality either

With Sisko, the impression I got was that if he didn't resign - retire he was going to DS9 as it's commander.

He wasn't "offered" the position.

Picard selected Riker as his first officer from availible officers, did Riker have a option?

Well he had at least 2 options, being captain of the Drake or being Picard's #1, & he chose the latter. I assume he could have remained #1 on the Hood as well, but was looking for better availabilities. DeSoto certainly regretting Will leaving.

Sisko is an interesting case, I hadn't considered much. Wasn't his former Captain Leyton responsible for him being promoted to commander, prior to DS9? & that the promotion came with the assignment, but he wasn't sure if he'd take it or not, & that mostly hinged on whether he was leaving entirely?

I'd think what might've happened was he was working at the fleet yards on Mars & his project got mothballed, & he was left looking for a post, & Leyton found him one that came with a promotion, but Ben was still kind of reeling in his personal life, & unsure about it. So in a way, it was an offer, but it was the only offer available to him at the time, which made it a not entirely cherry picked assignment.

I imagine not everyone has the luxury of all kinds of available options, especially at the command level, when assignments gets shuttered etc... which actually makes Riker's refusal to budge from the D seem even more self-serving imho. He had more privilege at his disposal than most officers we know of, & deliberately held a post hostage for 15 years

 

[Mojochi]

The situation with Jellico does seem to imply that there are circumstances when orders come down & assignments are given or taken away, but I also get the impression that just as often or even more so, most assignments are people seeking them, for whatever reason, usually advancement or better opportunity

I suppose they could've done something to Riker like they did to Sisko, & tell him, well, hey, if you're going to be a commander for 15 years, then we'll send you somewhere to command a dump or whatever, but I doubt that would've happened for a couple reasons. #1, Picard was always backing Riker up with whatever pull he had, & #2 unlike Sisko, Riker already had a job, & there wasn't any specific need to put an executive officer as good as him anywhere else. It's the promotion to captain they couldn't just forcibly assign to him, & he probably wouldn't have been any better use being a commander anywhere else but the Enterprise

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

I do wonder if they'd had Riker accept the Aries back in S2 what might've happened, especially with Worf eager to join him, so they might've lost two senior officers. It stands to reason Data would become the new Number One, but that then leaves Ops Manager and Security Chief vacant which could've seen two newcomers join the cast--ideally I'd loved to have seen two aliens, with the new officer at Ops being female.

 

[Tenacity]

especially with Worf eager to join him, so they might've lost two senior officers

Worf wasn't a senior officer at that time.

I think introducing two new main characters would have been great, shake things up. Yar gone in season one, Riker and Worf season two. True you run the risk of bringing in two actors who don't fit.

 

[at Quark's]

I still maintain he should have left in the very first episode, and he could have given different reasons for it. For example, consider these fragments:

PICARD: We'll first bring you up to date on a little adventure we had on our way here, Commander. Then we'll talk. Welcome aboard.
<Riker watches the Q trial of humanity thing>
RIKER: He calls that a little adventure?

And at the very end:

PICARD: All stations?
DATA: Ready for departure, sir.
PICARD: Some problem, Riker?
RIKER: Just hoping this isn't the usual way our missions will go, sir.
PICARD: Oh no, Number One. I'm sure most will be much more interesting. Let's see what's out there. Engage.

So that should have told Riker that, belying his aloof and restrained "cultured" appearance, his new captain was, in fact, a dangerous and irresponsible adrenaline junkie, and that if he stayed, he probably would be in for a roller coaster ride of wildly improbable, insane, and dangerous adventures, all of which would euphemistically be classed under the monikers of "exploration" and "diplomacy". And indeed, that's what he got over the next 7 years.

 

[DonIago]

But the Riker we knew back then appeared to want wildly improbable, insane and dangerous adventures.

Even the novels have noted that to some degree TNG and everything that followed can be divided into pre and post-Borg, in the sense that "BoBW" and to a lesser extent "Q Who" brought home indisputable evidence that the "great unknown" in fact had at least one race that was actively hostile and vastly technologically superior to Our Heroes.

 

[JesterFace]

So that should have told Riker that, belying his aloof and restrained "cultured" appearance, his new captain was, in fact, a dangerous and irresponsible adrenaline junkie, and that if he stayed, he probably would be in for a roller coaster ride of wildly improbable, insane, and dangerous adventures, all of which would euphemistically be classed under the monikers of "exploration" and "diplomacy". And indeed, that's what he got over the next 7 years.

I don't agree with Picard being dangerous and irresponsible adrenaline junkie who takes the ship into a dangerous roller coaster ride. But, it's a TV show, if weird and interesting adventures didn't happen, would the viewers like it?