TheGodBen Revisits Star Trek

[Ssosmcin]

@TheGodBen while you and I don't see eye to eye on a number of episodes (because why should we honestly?), I do appreciate the discussion these generate. I don't think I could do an entire run of reviews like you and others have. Every time I try to do a Trek marathon, I wind up skipping to episodes I like more.

And I love "that bloody cartoon" so those should be fun to read.

 

[Mytran]

The Empath (**½)

This was the first episode of TOS I chose to watch. I had seen other episodes like Amok Time and The Trouble with Tribbles, but those were episodes that others chose to watch while I was in the room, this was the first time that I decided that I was going to watch a TOS episode. I was 21, and it was late on a Friday night when this episode came on BBC2, and with nothing else to watch I decided to give it a shot. What I got reinforced all the stereotypes about TOS. It’s slow, it’s weird, it’s low budget, and it has plenty of Shatner haminess.

But it was interesting enough to keep me watching. Which is odd as there’s plenty of boring bits in the episode, wordless sequences of Gem trying to express herself with modern dance, or scenes that are unnecessarily drawn out. Even the core premise of the episode is pretty flimsy when you get down to it. But there’s also some good material for the main trio, and the episode’s heart is in the right place. It was enough to convince me that I should give TOS a full watch-through, which I got around to doing this following year.

All of this is to say that I have a strange sort of nostalgia for this episode. Had I not first watched it in the way that I did then I’d probably be more harsh with it than I’m being. Like Spectre of the Gun, I actually like the surrealness of the setting that was forced by the budget constraints, and the musical score gave the episode some extra flavour. It’s not an episode I’m in any hurry to rewatch, but it’s something I can tolerate and find reasonably interesting in infrequent doses.

Part of the fun of these review threads is when people have differing opinions to yours on what makes a "good" episode and to read the reasons why. IDIC, people! (available from Lincoln Enterprises)

Having said all that, this episode is not one of my favourites. The minimal cast, the minimal sets, the static nature of the plot, the extended periods of Shatner overacting - come off like a fanfic stage play!
After a fairly intriguing first act, this episode devolves into being rather plodding: McCoy explain’s Gem’s powers twice and many of the scenes feel drawn out. The use of slow-mo on Kirk doesn’t help either and the “Gem theme music” really gets repetitive after a while. And that final scene when she heals McCoy seem to go on forever!
Even the “comedy” tag at the end seems drawn out, as if the actors are speaking slower than usual...

There is a good message buried in there, but it's drawn out and hammered home so many times that this episode actually becomes boring, a label no Star Trek should bear.

 

[Ssosmcin]

The Empath (**½)

I like this one. I don't love it. It works better at midnight, which is about when I used to watch Star Trek back in the mid-80's and early 90's and this one is spooky. Especially that one appearance of the Vians when the fish eye lens is used and the lead dude is very close.

As a fan of the Irwin Allen shows, I appreciate the use of the "limbo" set, the freezing tubes from the Jupiter 2 and a few props from Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea. I had read that when those shows were done, Fox sold off some of their wares and the prop guys from Trek went to see what they could get. It was "mostly submarine dials and gauges" but a few things wound up in this episode.

I also love how this focued entirely on the main trio and really cemented their relationship. The music, of course, was top class, and fans in the 70's went apeshit over Gem. For all of the flack the third season gets, a LOT of characters and concepts truly resonated with fans back then.

Shatner has a few moments that I laughed at as a kid and still chuckle over a bit. When he has his fit over "one specimen! You said one specimen!" I used to throw tantrums like that, too. When I was like 8.

The Vians, kinda discount Talosians in design, are still creepy and the fate of the two scientists (Jason Wingreen!) is very scary. Joyce Muskat leaned pretty heavily on the torture, which makes this feel a little "fan fictiony" but there are enough good points to make this a solid third season entry.

 

[Phaser Two]

Yeah, honestly, the Vians are total creeps. I do enjoy the fact that they are not all-powerful. Our boys steal a weapon from them and Spock successfully catches one with a nerve pinch.

 

[Hofner]

A bit late commenting on "Spock's Brain" here.

Spock's Brain was the very first Star Trek episode I saw in color. My Dad bought our first color TV in the summer of 1968 just before the premiere of the third season of Star Trek. I was blown away by how colorful the show was and enjoyed the episode with all its weirdness except for one thing that kind of spoiled it for me.

I was a boy only eight years old and when I saw the ep title "Spock's Brain", I thought, kewl, I'm going to see a brain in glorious living color!

I had seen the movie "Earth vs. The Flying Saucers" and had thought it was so cool in the scene where that guy's skull had become invisible and we could actually see the lobes of his brain. And now the title "Spock's Brain" was a promise that the ep would show you know what in glorious living color, not just the black and white of E vs. TFS, remember I was only an eight year old boy.

Well, as we all know, they didn't show his brain. When Spock sat up right after the operation and there wasn't even a bandage on his head, I felt totally cheated. they had named the entire episode after his brain and had totally not come through on showing the subject of the entire episode.

Oh well, one of the 'childhood traumas' I had to go through when I was growing up.

Robert

 

[J.T.B.]

"The Empath" is my least favorite episode. It was one of the last I caught in reruns in my late teens and I hated it. It's dull and drawn-out, yet annoying in insistently hitting the same manipulative notes over and over. The aliens' way of evaluating a planet seems about as brutal and unsophisticated as can be. Of course their sadism is just a pretext to let the actors show their SUFFERING in a really stagey, performy, self-conscious way. Never liked this episode.

This is what I get for barely posting in this forum since 2006.

FWIW "The Enterprise Incident" ranked 3rd for season 3, behind "The Tholian Web" and "Day of the Dove," and 22nd overall. Personally I gave it a 7, it's above average but of some of it is pretty dumb.

Spoiler: 2014-2016 forum poll episode rankings

 1. The Doomsday Machine                9.57
 2. Mirror, Mirror                      9.48
 3. The City on the Edge of Forever     9.10
 4. Balance of Terror                   9.04
 5. The Devil in the Dark               9.00
 6. Journey to Babel                    9.00
 7. Amok Time                           8.63
 8. Arena                               8.57
 9. The Corbomite Maneuver              8.56
10. Where No Man Has Gone Before        8.46
11. A Taste of Armageddon               8.39
12. The Trouble With Tribbles           8.26
13. The Naked Time                      8.26
14. The Tholian Web                     8.23
15. The Menagerie, Parts I and II       8.22
16. Errand of Mercy                     8.13
17. Space Seed                          8.10
18. The Ultimate Computer               8.06
19. The Immunity Syndrome               7.90
20. Day of the Dove                     7.88
21. The Cage                            7.84
22. The Enterprise Incident             7.83
23. Tomorrow Is Yesterday               7.81
24. The Galileo Seven                   7.79
25. The Conscience of the King          7.78
26. Obsession                           7.71
27. This Side of Paradise               7.71
28. Shore Leave                         7.70
29. All Our Yesterdays                  7.64
30. Metamorphosis                       7.56
31. Dagger of the Mind                  7.30
32. The Squire of Gothos                7.23
33. The Enemy Within                    7.22
34. Who Mourns for Adonais?             7.19
35. Charlie X                           7.18
36. Court Martial                       7.17
37. Bread and Circuses                  7.12
38. Operation: Annihilate!              7.09
39. Friday's Child                      7.04
40. What Are Little Girls Made Of?      7.00
41. A Private Little War                6.95
42. The Return of the Archons           6.95
43. The Man Trap                        6.89
44. The Paradise Syndrome               6.89
45. Elaan of Troyius                    6.78
46. A Piece of the Action               6.76
47. Spectre of the Gun                  6.67
48. Is There in Truth No Beauty?        6.65
49. The Changeling                      6.48
50. The Deadly Years                    6.45
51. Patterns of Force                   6.41
52. The Savage Curtain                  6.23
53. By Any Other Name                   6.22
54. The Gamesters of Triskelion         6.17
55. Assignment: Earth                   6.12
56. The Empath                          6.09
57. Wink of an Eye                      6.06
58. Return to Tomorrow                  6.00
59. That Which Survives                 5.96
60. Wolf in the Fold                    5.93
61. Requiem for Methuselah              5.89
62. Let That Be Your Last Battlefield   5.81
63. For the World Is Hollow...          5.67
64. Miri                                5.59
65. The Cloud Minders                   5.57
66. The Omega Glory                     5.56
67. Catspaw                             5.48
68. Mudd's Women                        5.30
69. I, Mudd                             5.27
70. Whom Gods Destroy                   5.15
71. The Apple                           5.10
72. The Lights of Zetar                 5.00
73. The Way to Eden                     4.63
74. Spock's Brain                       4.48
75. Turnabout Intruder                  4.46
76. The Mark of Gideon                  4.43
77. Plato's Stepchildren                4.29
78. The Alternative Factor              3.12
79. And the Children Shall Lead         2.04

 

[Ssosmcin]

Spoiler: 2014-2016 forum poll episode rankings

 1. The Doomsday Machine                9.57
 2. Mirror, Mirror                      9.48
 3. The City on the Edge of Forever     9.10
 4. Balance of Terror                   9.04
 5. The Devil in the Dark               9.00
 6. Journey to Babel                    9.00
 7. Amok Time                           8.63
 8. Arena                               8.57
 9. The Corbomite Maneuver              8.56
10. Where No Man Has Gone Before        8.46
11. A Taste of Armageddon               8.39
12. The Trouble With Tribbles           8.26
13. The Naked Time                      8.26
14. The Tholian Web                     8.23
15. The Menagerie, Parts I and II       8.22
16. Errand of Mercy                     8.13
17. Space Seed                          8.10
18. The Ultimate Computer               8.06
19. The Immunity Syndrome               7.90
20. Day of the Dove                     7.88
21. The Cage                            7.84
22. The Enterprise Incident             7.83
23. Tomorrow Is Yesterday               7.81
24. The Galileo Seven                   7.79
25. The Conscience of the King          7.78
26. Obsession                           7.71
27. This Side of Paradise               7.71
28. Shore Leave                         7.70
29. All Our Yesterdays                  7.64
30. Metamorphosis                       7.56
31. Dagger of the Mind                  7.30
32. The Squire of Gothos                7.23
33. The Enemy Within                    7.22
34. Who Mourns for Adonais?             7.19
35. Charlie X                           7.18
36. Court Martial                       7.17
37. Bread and Circuses                  7.12
38. Operation: Annihilate!              7.09
39. Friday's Child                      7.04
40. What Are Little Girls Made Of?      7.00
41. A Private Little War                6.95
42. The Return of the Archons           6.95
43. The Man Trap                        6.89
44. The Paradise Syndrome               6.89
45. Elaan of Troyius                    6.78
46. A Piece of the Action               6.76
47. Spectre of the Gun                  6.67
48. Is There in Truth No Beauty?        6.65
49. The Changeling                      6.48
50. The Deadly Years                    6.45
51. Patterns of Force                   6.41
52. The Savage Curtain                  6.23
53. By Any Other Name                   6.22
54. The Gamesters of Triskelion         6.17
55. Assignment: Earth                   6.12
56. The Empath                          6.09
57. Wink of an Eye                      6.06
58. Return to Tomorrow                  6.00
59. That Which Survives                 5.96
60. Wolf in the Fold                    5.93
61. Requiem for Methuselah              5.89
62. Let That Be Your Last Battlefield   5.81
63. For the World Is Hollow...          5.67
64. Miri                                5.59
65. The Cloud Minders                   5.57
66. The Omega Glory                     5.56
67. Catspaw                             5.48
68. Mudd's Women                        5.30
69. I, Mudd                             5.27
70. Whom Gods Destroy                   5.15
71. The Apple                           5.10
72. The Lights of Zetar                 5.00
73. The Way to Eden                     4.63
74. Spock's Brain                       4.48
75. Turnabout Intruder                  4.46
76. The Mark of Gideon                  4.43
77. Plato's Stepchildren                4.29
78. The Alternative Factor              3.12
79. And the Children Shall Lead         2.04

Woo hoo, Doomsday Machine for the win!!! I remember that poll.

 

[Lord Garth]

FWIW "The Enterprise Incident" ranked 3rd for season 3, behind "The Tholian Web" and "Day of the Dove," and 22nd overall. Personally I gave it a 7, it's above average but of some of it is pretty dumb.

I rated every episode on a 10-scale at one point too. Here's what I had:

Spoiler

TOS Season 1
The Cage – 10
Where No Man Has Gone Before – 10
The Corbomite Maneuver – 8
Mudd's Women – 6
The Enemy Within – 10
The Man Trap – 6
The Naked Time – 10
Charlie X – 7
Balance of Terror – 9
What Are Little Girls Made Of? – 8
Dagger of the Mind – 7
Miri – 5
Conscience of the King – 9
Galileo Seven – 10
Court Martial – 10
The Menagerie, Part I – 8
The Menagerie, Part II – 8
Shore Leave – 10
The Squire of Gothos – 8
Arena – 7
The Alternative Factor – 5
Tomorrow Is Yesterday – 10
Return of the Archons – 7
A Taste of Armageddon – 9
Space Seed – 9
This Side of Paradise – 10
Devil in the Dark – 7
Errand of Mercy – 7
City on the Edge of Forever – 10
Operation: Annihilate! – 8

TOS Season 1 Average: 8.27
TOS Season 1 Median: 8
TOS Season 1 Standard Deviation: 1.10

TOS Season 2
Catspaw – 6
Metamorphosis – 7
Friday’s Child – 7
Who Mourns for Adonais? – 7
Amok Time – 10
The Doomsday Machine – 10
Wolf in the Fold – 7
The Changeling – 7
The Apple – 7
Mirror, Mirror – 10
The Deadly Years – 7
I, Mudd – 9
The Trouble With Tribbles – 10
Bread and Circuses – 8
Journey to Babel – 8
A Private Little War – 8
The Gamesters of Triskelion – 7
Obsession – 8
The Immunity Syndrome – 8
A Piece of the Action – 9
By Any Other Name – 9
Return to Tomorrow – 10
Patterns of Force – 7
The Ultimate Computer – 8
The Omega Glory – 7
Assignment: Earth – 8

TOS Season 2 Average: 8.04
TOS Season 2 Median: 8
TOS Season 2 Standard Deviation: 0.92

TOS Season 3
Spectre of the Gun – 7
Elaan of Troyus – 5.5
The Paradise Syndrome – 8
The Enterprise Incident – 10
And the Children Shall Lead – 3
Spock’s Brain – 7
Is There In Truth No Beauty – 6
The Empath – 10
The Tholian Web – 9
For the World Is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky – 9
Day of the Dove – 10
Plato’s Stepchildren – 4
Wink of an Eye – 6
That Which Survives – 7
Let That Be Your Last Battlefield – 6
Whom Gods Destroy – 6
The Mark of Gideon – 6
The Lights of Zetar – 5
The Cloud Minders – 8
The Way to Eden – 7
Requiem for Methuselah – 8
The Savage Curtain – 7
All Our Yesterdays – 8
Turnabout Intruder – 6.5

TOS Season 3 Average: 7.04
TOS Season 3 Median: 7
TOS Season 3 Standard Deviation: 1.01

EDIT: Comparing my numbers to the general consensus from those polls, it seems like I wasn't as tough on the series as everyone else. I rate based on enjoy-ability and my primary standard is: "Did I like watching it?"

DOUBLE-EDIT: The way that breaks down, I have:

Excellent (9-10) --> 27 episodes (33.75%)
Good (7-8) --> 39 episodes (48.75%)
Fair (5-6) --> 12 episodes (15%)
Poor (3-4) --> 2 episodes (2.5%)

To make it more round and concise:
30% Excellent
50% Good
20% Everything Else

 

[CorporalCaptain]

One of the few redeeming features of "And the Children Shall Lead" is the gruesome death of the redshirts when they are unknowingly beamed into space. That's pretty horrific, and befitting of an episode with horror pretensions.

"And the Children..." is one of the three third season episodes that contend in my book for worst ever TOS episode. The other two are "Plato's Stepchildren" and "The Lights of Zetar."

I can go along with the argument that "The Alternative Factor" ought to be down there among the worst, but I kinda find it fun to watch, so there's that. "Spock's Brain" is also kinda fun, so, nope, neither of those two are really that bad.

 

[johnnybear]

I don't get the hate for Children! It's not the best episode agreed but it has some scary scenes and the kids were all competent actors outside of Mr.Belli and even he isn't that bad! Plato I agree with wholeheartedly!!!
JB

 

[Forbin]

Is There In Truth... is very high on my list of favorites. The premise, as expressed by the title, is just SO very 60s, and a good lesson to keep teaching. Diana is so perfectly beautiful in this, and the irony of Miranda's coldness. I also like a little high melodrama once in a while, and Marvick's teenage meltdown is an awesome slice of ham. Most of all, for me, the music is probably Trek's most beautiful score ever. I listen to it often. And despite the commercial intent, IDIC has been my way of life since it was expressed in that scene.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

What I like best about "Is There in Truth..." is the Spock/Kolos monologue on the bridge.

How compact your bodies are. And what a variety of senses you have. This thing you call language though, most remarkable. You depend on it for so very much. But is any one of you really its master? But most of all, the aloneness. You are so alone. You live out your lives in this shell of flesh. Self-contained, separate. How lonely you are. How terribly lonely.​

http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/62.htm

One monologue does not an episode make, but I really like it. I really like all of Nimoy's acting when Spock is joined with Kolos.

The reveal that Miranda is blind and the resolution are also good. I also like that the idea of telepathic humans is revisited.

But there are problems in the execution. It seriously drags in places and seems to have padding. It's also hammy: yes Marvick's meltdown, but also the mind-meld between Miranda and Spock. Possibly humorous, but inappropriately so.

Having a weird anomalous background for the unknown extragalactic void is something that I've always thought of as an interesting choice. It suggests "subspace pocket," perhaps like Elysia in TAS: "The Time Trap" (before the DVD remaster that all but destroyed its originally red background) or like the interphasically connected alternate universe in TOS "The Tholian Web." So, that was cool.

 

[Lord Garth]

I don't get the hate for Children! It's not the best episode agreed but it has some scary scenes and the kids were all competent actors outside of Mr.Belli and even he isn't that bad!

To be totally fair, I haven't actually watched that episode since high school. I usually watch the episodes at random, like whichever one I feel like, and I've avoided revisiting "And the Children Shall Lead" again for over 20 years. But I'll give it another shot some time, to see if I judged it unfairly.

Plato I agree with wholeheartedly!!!

Yeah, Kirk as a horse kills it for me. There are some other embarrassing things too. I get it. We're not supposed to like what they're being put through. So, technically, I have to acknowledge "Plato's Stepchildren" did what it set it out to do. It's just not something I personally really want to watch.

Then there's the interracial kiss. I understand its historical importance today, but too bad it wasn't between two people who love each other. I'm not saying that Kirk and Uhura should love each other but, in general, it should've been between two people -- not them -- who love each other.

 

[Mytran]

Then there's the interracial kiss. I understand its historical importance today, but too bad it wasn't between two people who love each other. I'm not saying that Kirk and Uhura should love each, but in general, it should've been between two people -- not them -- who love each other.

Or at least weren't being made to do it against their wills. What's so progressive about watching forced assault?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Or at least weren't being made to do it against their wills. What's so progressive about watching forced assault?

Yep.

 

[plynch]

I love season 3.
It's weird-cooler than the very well-done S2. Melvin Belli doesn't bug me, though I wish he didn't have to turn ugly. And I had a big Pamelyn Fer dyn (sp?) crush. Spock's brain is trash, but I looove Way to Edyn on both surface and deeper levels. Methusela h, Empath, holy crap, Spectre!! Great, stuff. Plato's is soo Trekky at the end and Dunn is one of best guest stars in Trek. Probably more episodes I love than S2. (S1 is best ever season on tv so unfair compare).

 

[Maurice]

To be totally fair, I haven't actually watched that episode since high school. I usually watch the episodes at random, like whichever one I feel like, and I've avoided revisiting "And the Children Shall Lead" again for over 20 years. But I'll give it another shot some time, to see if I judged it unfairly.


Yeah, Kirk as a horse kills it for me. There are some other embarrassing things too. I get it. We're not supposed to like what they're being put through. So, technically, I have to acknowledge "Plato's Stepchildren" did what it set it out to do. It's just not something I personally really want to watch.

Then there's the interracial kiss. I understand its historical importance today, but too bad it wasn't between two people who love each other. I'm not saying that Kirk and Uhura should love each other but, in general, it should've been between two people -- not them -- who love each other.

The only "historical significance" it has is Trekkies and Nichols keep going on about it so it gets repeated. It's a faked no-contact kiss (Shatner says so and it's obvious when you look at it) that isn't even a kiss; someone forcing your lips against someone else's isn't a kiss, it's battery.

 

[Lord Garth]

The only "historical significance" it has is Trekkies and Nichols keep going on about it so it gets repeated. It's a faked no-contact kiss (Shatner says so and it's obvious when you look at it) that isn't even a kiss; someone forcing your lips against someone else's isn't a kiss, it's battery.

Yeah, well, it's also mentioned in an episode of Orange Is the New Black. Fifth season. "The first interracial kiss on Star Trek!" Blown out of proportion or not, prove it to them (in the generic), not me.

 

[Maurice]

Yeah, well, it's also mentioned in an episode of Orange Is the New Black. Fifth season. "The first interracial kiss on Star Trek!" Blown out of proportion or not, prove it to them (in the generic), not me.

The point isn't aimed at you it's just about this self-perpetuating myth machine that is popular culture.

 

[Forbin]

To be totally fair, I haven't actually watched that episode since high school. I usually watch the episodes at random, like whichever one I feel like, and I've avoided revisiting "And the Children Shall Lead" again for over 20 years. But I'll give it another shot some time, to see if I judged it unfairly.


Yeah, Kirk as a horse kills it for me. There are some other embarrassing things too. I get it. We're not supposed to like what they're being put through. So, technically, I have to acknowledge "Plato's Stepchildren" did what it set it out to do. It's just not something I personally really want to watch.

Then there's the interracial kiss. I understand its historical importance today, but too bad it wasn't between two people who love each other. I'm not saying that Kirk and Uhura should love each other but, in general, it should've been between two people -- not them -- who love each other.

In my recent rewatch of It Takes a Thief I discovered that Robert Wagner gave Denise Nicholas an affectionate smooch at the end of their adventure - and episode that aired just one month after Plato's Stepchildren. So since Kirk & Uhura were forced, and the actors faked it away from camera anyway, I'd be happy to declare the other one the first official interracial kiss on prime time TV. Or not. YMMV.