The Future of "Novel-Only" Lines

[Christopher]

It's not really necessary to have even numerous parallel timelines. Perhaps 4 or 5. Say 2 or 3 where Romulus is destroyed, one where it is stopped, and maybe one where the events never arise.

But that is exactly my point. With so few timelines, the "randomness makes any nonsensical thing equally likely" argument is a complete non-starter, because that argument is predicated on the assumption of an infinite multiverse where everything's got to happen somewhere. With so few timelines, the probability that Romulus could be destroyed by two different supernovae at the same time by completely different and unrelated causes is just too ludicrously tiny to contemplate. This is elementary probability here. If you flip a coin a million times, maybe it'll land on its edge once, but you'd be crazy to expect it to happen if you only flip 4 or 5 times.

 

[Stevil2001]

Star Trek is, of course, known for its nuanced and rational depiction of parallel timelimes.

 

[Avro Arrow]

it's basically one disaster and crisis after another, and if anything I imagine most Federation citizens of the 2380s are living in a state of constant fear and anxiety about the next incident and how it will turn their lives upside down.

So... much like us, now?

I guess Star Trek has always been good about creating parables that reflect our real world issues.

 

[David cgc]

That the fact that PIC is irreconcilable with the novelverse on the issue of forewarning of the nova should be taken as meaning the nova wouldn't happen in the novelverse feels frustrating to me. I mean, granted, it doesn't make any difference either way if there are no more novelverse stories coming, but just as an idea, after over a decade of waiting for the books to get to the fireworks factory, it feels like salt in the wound to say "there was never going to be a nova."

 

[Sci]

Mostly it boils down to the fact that I do not and have never considered Data 2.0/Data Soong to be the same person as the Data who served under Picard. He is to Data as Tom Riker is to Will -- and like Tom, he's evolved into a very different person than his progenitor.

I mean, sure, but the whole tenor of Picard's (and Riker's) approach to the entire situation indicates a level of amazement and investment that makes literally no sense if there's another android out there who, even if not Data, is much more like Data than Dahj/Soji. And no one ever even mentions either of them?

Oh sure, there's a certain amount of squinting, fudging, and suspension of disbelief for me to try to reconcile the two. Bear in mind I'm approaching this with a certain level of playfulness -- I know it doesn't really fit, but I'm trying to see how much I can fit into the box before the brim overflows, metaphorically speaking.

For my money, I can suspend disbelief on Jean-Luc's, Will's, and Deanna's reactions enough on this if, say, Data Soong and Lal both disappeared 14 years ago.

I'm all for contrived intellectual exercises (I once spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to reconcile the Daniel Craig Bond films with the older ones), but I don't get this one at all.

With respect, I think if you tried to figure out how to reconcile the pre-Craig Bond films with Craig's, then you absolutely do get this one. It's really exactly the same thing -- trying to reconcile contradictory sets of stories because you have an emotional attachment to both of them.

 

[Christopher]

The fact that PIC is irreconcilable with the novelverse on the issue of forewarning of the nova should be taken as meaning the nova wouldn't happen in the novelverse feels frustrating to me.

Not "should be," just is worth considering. It's not a bad thing to re-examine your preconceptions. Discovering new possibilities and exploring options you didn't have before can be fun. That's basically the guiding philosophy of Starfleet, after all.

I mean, granted, it doesn't make any difference either way if there are no more novelverse stories coming, but just as an idea, after over a decade of waiting for the books to get to the fireworks factory, it feels like salt in the wound to say "there was never going to be a nova."

But if we're correct in assuming that the novelverse isn't going to continue anyway, what difference does it make? Besides, reader expectations are one thing, the actual narrative another. The narrative as it stands contains basically zero foreshadowing of the supernova, because Pocket didn't have the license to acknowledge Bad Robot storylines directly. The only way it was affected by the supernova premise was in avoiding catching up to 2387. So the narrative of the novelverse is already completely disconnected from the idea of the supernova. It only takes a shift in perspective to see that as a feature rather than a bug.

Besides, part of the reason I think this way is that Picard already dealt with the supernova in a very impressive way, making more logical sense of the movie's nonsense than I ever could've managed if I'd hypothetically been charged with explaining it in the books. They did it so well that it would be hard to top, so instead of trying to compete at the same thing, it might be more interesting to do something different instead.

Not that any further books in that continuity are likely to be written, but it's interesting to imagine how that continuity might evolve in ways we never contemplated before when we were locked into the assumption that the supernova was inevitable.

 

[Damian]

The fact that PIC is irreconcilable with the novelverse on the issue of forewarning of the nova should be taken as meaning the nova wouldn't happen in the novelverse feels frustrating to me. I mean, granted, it doesn't make any difference either way if there are no more novelverse stories coming, but just as an idea, after over a decade of waiting for the books to get to the fireworks factory, it feels like salt in the wound to say "there was never going to be a nova."

Yeah, that's really it when you get down to it. Long before there was Picard, after we learned Romulus was destroyed in 2387 from Star Trek (2009) it was sort of a waiting game. When that film came out the novels were still years away from getting to that point. It was almost like a countdown. 2381, 2382. Each book got a little closer to that fateful moment. And then....nothing. It's like going through a maze thinking there's a huge prize at the end of it and when you get to the end there is nothing. Someone years ago hinted at something amazing at the end but you get there and it's just blah. Sorry kid, never happened.

I was wondering how it would all go down. I figured it would probably be a big Destiny-like trilogy. I mean, this was going to be huge, the biggest thing since the Borg Attack.

I figured Christopher could set the stage, explain how it all started in a way that sounded perfectly logical, David Mack would write some epic trilogy about the event itself and maybe KRAD would come in to lay out the ramifications to all the players after the fact (the Khitomer Powers and the Typhon Pact). Uma McCormack would write a book about the plight of the surviving Romulan refugees and other authors would have carried on (ok, that was all made up on the fly--but they all did such a great job with the set up of the Borg invasion, how it happened and the aftermath so why not ).

It's really a shame licensing got in the way. I imagine if that wasn't the case the various authors over the years would have started addressing it years ago in some fashion.

 

[Leathco]

There was? I remember a story in The Sky's the Limit anthology set during the Enterprise D's construction, but it wasn't really about the ship's construction. Is this what you meant? Something during the construction of La Sirena?

Even if we are still talking about the ship's construction, the construction of the Enterprise D can create all kinds of drama, being one of the Federation's most advanced ships of its time one can logically see how there would be draws from various villains such as alien spies or what not or even doing a story about the murder we learn about in Eye of the Beholder. La Sirena is a civilian ship with no indication its technology is state of the art or anything that alien spies would be drawn to. Unless you're going to reveal another murder went on when the ship was under construction and the corpses are buried within the ship's walls, I'm not sure what is so great about the ship's construction.

Just depends on your interests I guess. I would think there would be an interesting story about a former Starfleet officer acquiring the ship (or even paying to have it custom made for him), making major modifications along the way, making this ship as close as he can to meet Starfleet regs while distancing himself from that same fleet. Attempting (and failing) to cope with his loss while pouring his heart and soul into the ship (almost literally, looking at the holograms). That's just one random idea off the top of my head.

 

[DGCatAniSiri]

Just depends on your interests I guess. I would think there would be an interesting story about a former Starfleet officer acquiring the ship (or even paying to have it custom made for him), making major modifications along the way, making this ship as close as he can to meet Starfleet regs while distancing himself from that same fleet. Attempting (and failing) to cope with his loss while pouring his heart and soul into the ship (almost literally, looking at the holograms). That's just one random idea off the top of my head.

That idea sounds less like a story about La Sirena being constructed and more a character study of Rios.

I mean, I’d read it, but if I were writing up a short sentence summary, I wouldn’t use “the construction of the ship” but... well, “character study of Rios.”

 

[Christopher]

I figured Christopher could set the stage, explain how it all started in a way that sounded perfectly logical

If we'd gone that way, I would've hoped to play a role like that, or at least to be involved in working out the science and mechanics of it. But I was never fully satisfied with the explanations I could think of, because I was locked into the movie's implication that it all happened within a short span of time, and that it was a different star from Romulus itself and somehow propagated faster than light. Picard's refinement that it was Romulus's own sun and there were years of advance warning makes so much more sense, and the failure of the evacuation fleet and the Federation's decision to suspend it explains why it was left to Spock and the Vulcan Science Academy to handle it alone.

Although that does leave a few questions, like what Spock hoped to accomplish by releasing the Red Matter after the supernova had already happened. It would've been too late to stop the radiation front from expanding after the explosion, so it seems entirely pointless.

 

[Damian]

If we'd gone that way, I would've hoped to play a role like that, or at least to be involved in working out the science and mechanics of it. But I was never fully satisfied with the explanations I could think of, because I was locked into the movie's implication that it all happened within a short span of time, and that it was a different star from Romulus itself and somehow propagated faster than light. Picard's refinement that it was Romulus's own sun and there were years of advance warning makes so much more sense, and the failure of the evacuation fleet and the Federation's decision to suspend it explains why it was left to Spock and the Vulcan Science Academy to handle it alone.

Although that does leave a few questions, like what Spock hoped to accomplish by releasing the Red Matter after the supernova had already happened. It would've been too late to stop the radiation front from expanding after the explosion, so it seems entirely pointless.

I have faith you'd figure something out.

But it would have been a lot easier if there were no licensing issues. Then the novels could have starting building it up years ago and make it more plausible. At this point it'd have to be a pretty sudden attack that left little warning. Plausible in Star Trek history because it's been done, but yeah, if this is a parallel universe it'd be tough to explain. Unless it's some sort of destination paradox--where Romulus is doomed in all universes. I'm a bit more willing to, um, overlook some plot devices if the story is a good, dramatic story otherwise.

In retrospect I wonder if the novels could have set up something. I mean, stars do go nova. Could they have started indications that some star in Romulan space started showing signs of going nova somehow. I mean, S&S could make an argument that novas are not a trademarked event. And then once the licensing settled they could have used that as the means to destroy Romulus? I'm just speculating but I figure there have to be ways around that, to leave the door open, yet have some plausible deniability built in as well.

I wonder if any future Picard episode or novel perhaps addresses the Spock/Red Matter/Nero angle.

 

[Christopher]

But it would have been a lot easier if there were no licensing issues. Then the novels could have starting building it up years ago and make it more plausible.

Yes, of course, but they didn't. No point dwelling on might-have-beens or counterfactuals. That's something you learn as a writer, or probably in any career -- things take unexpected turns, and you need to accept them, adapt to them, and focus on what you can do going forward.

 

[The Wormhole]

The world in general is needing to cope with and adapt to unexpected turns things have taken this year. Dwelling on what might have been is certainly a futile exercise in 2020.

 

[Damian]

Yes, of course, but they didn't. No point dwelling on might-have-beens or counterfactuals. That's something you learn as a writer, or probably in any career -- things take unexpected turns, and you need to accept them, adapt to them, and focus on what you can do going forward.

Well, can't argue with you there. Just a shame we never got to see how you guys/gals would tackle that story because of legalities.

I will be interested to see how Kirsten Beyer handles her upcoming Voyager book. She's really the only one of the relaunch authors that actually gets a chance to put a final stamp on the line. You could argue David Mack did something similar with "Collateral Damage" at least in some respects.

Too bad DS9 won't get a similar chance for a finale. I'm not sure if I mentioned it but I would love one final DS9 novel to close it out. Just sayin (in my warped mind I think maybe if I keep bugging people some writer will say "FINE, I'll do it, I'll write it just to shut that freaking guy up"--I know that's not how the world works and it'll never happen but what the hell--unless----we start a letter writing campaign to Pocketbooks demanding a DS9 finale, or....um, never mind).

And I won't leave out Enterprise....though at least in that case the series could continue largely unchanged if they wanted too.

 

[David cgc]

Although that does leave a few questions, like what Spock hoped to accomplish by releasing the Red Matter after the supernova had already happened. It would've been too late to stop the radiation front from expanding after the explosion, so it seems entirely pointless.

More than that. A conventional nova would've given Picard additional years for his mission, which was never mentioned in LBH, with 2287 being treated as the deadline for every planet. Likewise, if Spock's plan worked, it saved all the planets Picard was allowed to evacuate, whether or not he actually got to them, since only Romulus was destroyed and the blast stopped there. If, as you suggest, it didn't have any effect on the radiation burst, Spock would've been smart enough not to waste the effort.

Making it Romulus's own star that exploded doesn't really make anything more plausible, since the rest of the story still assumes it's a magic Star Trek nova that goes everywhere almost instantly, and it hurts Spock's character, because it would be impossible to save Romulus even if everything worked perfectly, since he'd still be replacing the Romulan sun with a black hole, which would buy the planet only a few additional weeks or months to evacuate before everyone froze to death, which wouldn't matter, because Romulus wasn't being evacuated on any kind of mass scale, anyway.

 

[Christopher]

Making it Romulus's own star that exploded doesn't really make anything more plausible, since the rest of the story still assumes it's a magic Star Trek nova that goes everywhere almost instantly

You're referring only to the novel there, and I'd say its references are ambiguous and can be finessed. The actual show never said anything of the sort.

 

[JD]

I'm reading Titan: Fortunes of War right now, and there is something in that that could easily tie into the Romulus supernova, but I don't want to say to much since I'm getting into story idea territory.

I've been optimistic about the Novelverse continuing in some form, but I have a feeling that even if it does continue, we will probably not see any more books in the series that aren't tied directly to the shows. So I'd say there's a pretty good chance that no matter what happens, we probably won't see any more books in series like DTI, or Seekers. Titan is kind of borderline since it does heavily feature the Riker/Trois, and was set up by Nemesis.

If it is going to end, I hope they at least don't do what Star War did, and give us a finale that gives us a real conclusion to as everything. I think the way Lucasfilm just instantly dropped their EU, even cancelling announced books, was kind of crappy, and I'd hate to see Pocket and CBS do the same thing to Star Trek. We do appear to be getting at least one more book we haven't heard about yet, so that's at least a good sign.

 

[Airmandan]

I'm reading Titan: Fortunes of War right now, and there is something in that that could easily tie into the Romulus supernova, but I don't want to say to much since I'm getting into story idea territory.

I've been optimistic about the Novelverse continuing in some form, but I have a feeling that even if it does continue, we will probably not see any more books in the series that aren't tied directly to the shows. So I'd say there's a pretty good chance that no matter what happens, we probably won't see any more books in series like DTI, or Seekers. Titan is kind of borderline since it does heavily feature the Riker/Trois, and was set up by Nemesis.

If it is going to end, I hope they at least don't do what Star War did, and give us a finale that gives us a real conclusion to as everything. I think the way Lucasfilm just instantly dropped their EU, even cancelling announced books, was kind of crappy, and I'd hate to see Pocket and CBS do the same thing to Star Trek. We do appear to be getting at least one more book we haven't heard about yet, so that's at least a good sign.

Bring this back up to the top because it seems it was a great conversation that should be continued.

JD, I had the same thought when I read Fortunes of War. The fact that we may never see if that idea came to fruition Is rather depressing.

As for the question about why there’s no supernova in the Destiny universe, how do we know that the supernova in the Picard universe was natural? So if you want to explain the difference away, the individual or groups that caused the supernova were killed in the Destiny universe. Since it would have been shortly after the events of Nemisis, it would have been tied in with the initial Titan novels or maybe even the “Death in Winter” novel. Hell you could say it might be the Death in Winter novel because that’s where Picard and Crusher finally get together, since that appears to have not occurred in the Picard timeline you could point to that as your timeline deviation.

I know I’m just spitballing here over a topic that has probably been discussed to death. But it’s still enjoyable to discuss.

 

[thribs]

There’s no supernova only because they haven’t got there yet. We only just got to 2387

 

[Christopher]

There’s no supernova only because they haven’t got there yet. We only just got to 2387

Picard establishes that there were years of advance warning for the supernova, that the evacuation fleet had been underway for several years before the 2385 synth attack on Mars shut it down. Behind-the-scenes materials and The Last Best Hope establish that Picard was promoted to admiral and began working on the Romulans' behalf just after the impending supernova was discovered in 2381.

And yet in the novels, we're up to 2386 without any advance notice of a supernova. And physical laws are the same in every timeline, so if the supernova was predictable 6 years in advance in one, it would've been in the other too.