Isn’t that what I said?
Spoilers Starship Design in Star Trek: Picard
- Thread starter pst
- Start date
Isn’t that what I said?
Yes. I was just clarifying to make sure I understood it.
Then she didn’t have to sacrifice herself. She could have ordered her Tal Shiar lackeys to die for the cause.
Could have completely backfired. I think it would have and left her in a disadvantaged position.
She strikes me as too much of a control freak.
Feels like every other Trek villain (for the most part) to me.
ETA: And antagonists too, since they are not always villains. Watching Oh's reaction to Riker felt like Seska and Species 8472, being willing to shut it down and fight another day.
Species 8472 seems to the most apt since they were convinced, convinced, that the beings from nonfluidic space would annihilate them, with a fleet already enroute. Janeway powers down weapons and *poof* I guess they are not out to kill us. False alarm everyone. It's cool.
The Tal Shiar were just tools. They would have beamed down and destroyed the androids on her command. They were no different than whatever beam weapons her ships had trained on the planet.
Isn't the basic setup that a few anointed are made mad by the Admonition, and then use their formal positions of power to further their perceived cause, without actually enrolling thousands of card-carrying Zhat Vash activists? And that about 99% of the folks in that fleet are just following orders from a Tal'Shiar general they probably never heard about before that day?
Might be Oh had little practical control over her assets, beyond the fear of retribution that Tal'Shiar instills on the military. Might be another type of fear could easily override that. How do you make your ad hoc underlings fear for the safety of their loved ones if government central control has been eroded by the loss of the homeworlds?
Yup, apparently three designs prepped, not four. And thus perhaps three nacelles, of which only two were ready for showtime. Hopefully, we'll see more of those eventually. (And hopefully in smaller doses. Riker would have less trouble commandeering his forces, I guess, and the occasional hundred-ship fleet could be seen, but supposedly starships still operate solo in most cases as of 2400.)
Timo Saloniemi
Might be Oh had little practical control over her assets, beyond the fear of retribution that Tal'Shiar instills on the military. Might be another type of fear could easily override that. How do you make your ad hoc underlings fear for the safety of their loved ones if government central control has been eroded by the loss of the homeworlds?
Yup, apparently three designs prepped, not four. And thus perhaps three nacelles, of which only two were ready for showtime. Hopefully, we'll see more of those eventually. (And hopefully in smaller doses. Riker would have less trouble commandeering his forces, I guess, and the occasional hundred-ship fleet could be seen, but supposedly starships still operate solo in most cases as of 2400.)
Timo Saloniemi
The best part of that scene in Defector was Tomalak's reaction: o.o -> O_O
When you're terrified for generations of an entire civilization of superior synths, you send all you have to destroy them.
I don't particularly see what other choice she had. She was using her position within the Tal Shiar to command the fleet, but there's no evidence most of those officers were Zhat Vash or even knew what the Zhat Vash was. We know from the Free State's willingness to dissolve the Neutral Zone and allow Federation scientists onto the Artifact that the Free State authorities want a more peaceful relationship with the Federation than the old Star Empire, so she knows if she tries to start a war she's screwed. And she knows the Coppelians have decided not to contact the Super A.I., so she no longer has reason to be confident that Soji is the prophecied Destroyer. And, on top of all that, Riker has just exposed her position within the Zhat Vash to the Tal Shiar crew, so she's probably thinking about how she's going to escape Free State/Tal Shiar authorities, since they would almost certainly want her head on a spike for causing the Federation to abandon the rescue armada.
And she knew the Starfleet ships could kick her fleet's ass.
Seems to me that a strategic retreat was her only option.
That, or a suicidal attempt to blast/ram the colony. But she probably wouldn't succeed (except in the getting-killed part), as her fleet would hesitate to support her and Riker would be in the way.
Plus, the adversary always has to escape, to potentially return one day. That is, unless she dies by means other than a fall to a bottomless pit or beaming out into empty space...
Timo Saloniemi
Plus, the adversary always has to escape, to potentially return one day. That is, unless she dies by means other than a fall to a bottomless pit or beaming out into empty space...
Timo Saloniemi
Was it ever established whether the Zhat Vash knew the size of the android colony?
If they didn't, it'd be better to bring ever ship they had just in case, as well as to wait for an indication of the strength of the android colony before wasting all their ammunition.
The only problem with this interpretation is the fact that they dropped all their ships out of warp instead of dropping one out and keeping the rest in a holding pattern at the edge of the system.
If they didn't, it'd be better to bring ever ship they had just in case, as well as to wait for an indication of the strength of the android colony before wasting all their ammunition.
The only problem with this interpretation is the fact that they dropped all their ships out of warp instead of dropping one out and keeping the rest in a holding pattern at the edge of the system.
For an organization leeching on the resources of not just one but (at least) two major intelligence organizations, the Zhat Vash had a pretty poor grasp of what was going on. Perhaps it goes with the members all being insane?
Then again, facing a Borg Cube already calls for hundreds of ships. Even a relatively well informed villain would have been hard pressed to know whether the newly activated Cube would be in bad shape, or fully battleworthy, after having been left to its own devices for a few hours.
...Now there is "starship design" for ya: were the ships we saw operating to and from the Artifact (the bat-like ones, like the one to ferry Dahj to the site originally) somehow optimized for dealing with the Borg, or were they just generic shuttlebuses for moving meek scientists around? (Or is that one and the same thing, perhaps?)
Timo Saloniemi
Then again, facing a Borg Cube already calls for hundreds of ships. Even a relatively well informed villain would have been hard pressed to know whether the newly activated Cube would be in bad shape, or fully battleworthy, after having been left to its own devices for a few hours.
...Now there is "starship design" for ya: were the ships we saw operating to and from the Artifact (the bat-like ones, like the one to ferry Dahj to the site originally) somehow optimized for dealing with the Borg, or were they just generic shuttlebuses for moving meek scientists around? (Or is that one and the same thing, perhaps?)
Timo Saloniemi
If the Tal Shiar are not fully committed to her cause and she orders a suicide mission there is no guarantee they would do so.
Well, I’m sure that I could come up with another response that you’ll just counter ad Infinitum, so this conversation is getting a bit pointless so I’m going to drop it.
As you say.
