Spoilers Starship Design in Star Trek: Picard
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Starfleet has never really denied the existence of Section 31--heck, their personnel even had their own public Starfleet badge for awhile. But at the same time, Starfleet doesn't volunteer too much information about it and what it actually does. Many may consider it just a special division of Starfleet Intelligence and not know too much else about it.
Yup. Although we have three distinct eras where S31 is seen operating. In ENT, it's a shady cabal that doesn't officially exist. In DSC and the parallel Into Darkness, it's a little-known but quite legitimate branch of Starfleet. And in DS9, it's back to shady cabal.
Supposedly, the S31 show would describe the DSC era (or Kelvin universe era, or TOS era, or whatever you want to call it), and there S31 would have little need to hide from Starfleet.
It might of course still engage in wholly illegal operations, like CIA and MI6 frequently do (all the more frequently in fiction, of course, and this is fiction!), and try and avoid drawing undue attention to those; half the plots could be about these Starfleet Intelligence workers trying to hide their work from their superiors or colleagues.
Timo Saloniemi
Supposedly, the S31 show would describe the DSC era (or Kelvin universe era, or TOS era, or whatever you want to call it), and there S31 would have little need to hide from Starfleet.
It might of course still engage in wholly illegal operations, like CIA and MI6 frequently do (all the more frequently in fiction, of course, and this is fiction!), and try and avoid drawing undue attention to those; half the plots could be about these Starfleet Intelligence workers trying to hide their work from their superiors or colleagues.
Timo Saloniemi
I wonder if there could also be a USS Enquiry.
That's one possible way to reconcile the seemingly contradictory depictions of them, yes. In my headcannon, I would say that's probably part of it, but it's also probably more complex because...
Specifically, it comes from Article 14, Section 31 of the United Earth Starfleet Charter. That passage has canonically been established as having "a few lines that make allowances for bending the rules during times of extraordinary threat."
When Sloan cites A14S31 of the UESF Charter as the source of Section 31's legal authority to exist, his legal argument false for two reasons:
- The United Earth Starfleet Charter is null and void because the United Earth Starfleet does not exist anymore as a legal entity. It was absorbed into the Federation Starfleet, just like the Andorian Imperial Guard, the Vulcan military, etc. Citing the UESF Charter as a source of legal authority makes about as much sense as a secret cabal of U.S. Navy officers citing a provision of the Act of the Massachusetts Great and General Court which authorized the establishment of the Massachusetts Naval Militia in 1775: a defunct law establishing a defunct agency of a political entity that has since surrendered its sovereignty and become part of a federal union.
- The canon has yet to indicate that the contents of Article 14, Section 31 of the United Earth Starfleet Charter say anything about establishing a formal division of Starfleet with enumerated authorities. Canonically, all we know of its contents is "a few lines that make allowances for bending the rules during times of extraordinary threat." A provision saying that there can be allowances for bending the rules in a crisis is a far, far cry from establishing an agency with carte blanche to place itself above the law and to refrain from answering to the democratic state. A legal equivalent would be if someone claimed had claimed in 2009 that the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 authorized the creation of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau just because the ARRA was a bill about economics; it would have been patently false. The CFPB could not legally exist until the passage of the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act of 2010; Section 31 cannot legally exist as an agency of Starfleet until legislation enacting its existence (or authorizing Starfleet Command to enact its existence via a formal, legal order) is passed.
In fairness, I'm not convinced S31 was a legitimate branch of Starfleet in Star Trek Into Darkness. It seems to me that Admiral Marcus was lying to Kirk when he portrayed it as a legitimate division, because otherwise he would have no reason to staff the Vengeance with non-Starfleet personnel. And he was clearly intending to lead a coup against the Federation government as part of his plans, so I wouldn't consider him a reliable source about the legitimacy of S31.
I just don't see what the dramatic purpose is of depicting Section 31 in those circumstances. You could tell the exact same stories but have the characters working for Starfleet Intelligence instead, and it wouldn't create that continuity hiccup, and it would preserve the element that makes Section 31 dramatically distinct from Starfleet Intelligence: its illegality and the nationalism that drives its members to believe its illegality doesn't matter.
USS Audit, USS Examination, USS Inspection, USS Investigation, USS Query, USS Scrutiny, USS Survey, USS Interrogatory...
I always took "the original Starfleet Charter" to be a reference to the United Earth Starfleet Charter, since it's the earliest canonical reference we have to a charter for an organization called a "Starfleet" that has a provision Section 31 uses to justify itself.
Possibly, but we don't have any canonical evidence to support this.
Oh yeah, I forgot the V’Shar were first mentioned in TNG.
I’m also sure the Federation also has a civilian intelligence service for things not under the military’s jurisdiction.
Doesn’t make sense to me that Starfleet intelligence would handle everything.
I’m also sure the Federation also has a civilian intelligence service for things not under the military’s jurisdiction.
Doesn’t make sense to me that Starfleet intelligence would handle everything.
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Section 31 pops up in Enterprise in one episode, so it's certain that the charter is the pre-Federation charter, and it managed to stick around past Starfleet being an Earth only institution. One thing is, we don't know when Starfleet stopped being Earth's and became the Federations. In the original movies the commander in chief was a Starfleet admiral, and only in TNG was the CiC the Federation President. Also, in TOS Starfleet seemed to also be more an Earth thing rather than Federation thing, at least early on.
Because the Federation wasn't a "thing" until Gene Coon introduced the idea later in to the first Season of TOS. According to my quick research it was "A Taste of Armageddon." Until that point, you are right it was all "Earth." Balance of Terror had "Earth Outposts" and Tomorrow is Yesterday had the "United Earth Space Probe Agency" and Kirk calling it a "combined service" when asked by an Air Force pilot.
So more angles of the Rom BoP, or at least Star Trek Online's recreation of it. They were given CBS's CG models to use as reference to it's fairly accurate. Also for the fans of the 3D modelling community out there, the STO model was made by Tobias Richter (so was their version of La Sirena as well if I'm remembering correctly).
The images come from a live stream they did yesterday so the quality isn't amazing
The images come from a live stream they did yesterday so the quality isn't amazing
A completely viable upgrade to the original design. I could easily see where an old 23rd century ship like that would have been patched up and refitted with newer equipment several times to make it look like that over a hundred years later, while still keeping the primary space frame and general outline of the skin. Nice to see Tobias hasn't lost his touch - Beautiful!
G
Gonzo
Guest
There is a fair chance that we could see Romulan BoP's in SNW at some point.
Hoping we will see proper Klingon BoP's as well alongside the D7.
Hoping we will see proper Klingon BoP's as well alongside the D7.
Oh side note, they've already remodelled the TOS Romulan BoP, which I honestly thought their current model looked fine.
What would a DSC Style TOS Klingon BoP even look like?
It would be "proper" whatever that means
Presumably, somewhere between this...
https://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/schematics/early-klingon-bop.jpg
...and this:
https://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/schematics/klingon-bop.jpg
And will probably end up looking like this:
https://johneaves.wordpress.com/2009/03/19/97/
Wouldn't mind that. At least it looks like a real Klingon ship, as opposed to the season 1 dumpster fires we got before.
As opposed to all those fake Klingon ships we have seen...
