Yes, I think its realistic.
I also think its OK to like the show as is instead of looking for the proper way.
Mileage will vary, obviously.
Spoilers Starship Design in Star Trek: Picard
- Thread starter pst
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I also think its OK to like the show as is instead of looking for the proper way.
Mileage will vary, obviously.
To you.
To a lot of people it was important.
Nine episodes without a single Starfleet ship, in a series that relies so heavily on nostalgia. So yes, when we finally get some ship porn, it was more important to a lot of people than you're suggesting.
So between "Same storyline, same fleet shot" and "Same storyline, better fleet shot" you'd pick the former? Ridiculous.
Delusional.
Hardly. Just a different opinion.
Says the man who belittled other fans' opinions just 10 minutes ago...
Wheres the belittling?
When you told fans to "get over" their view that the fleet shot was terrible.
Not what I meant but I could have put it better.
But, I'll just go on with being delusional
and by the way...
https://i0.wp.com/movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/generations/ch16/gen1100.jpg
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/FaintWellmadeCormorant-poster.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/5471/10482348613_f27565ba17_b.jpg
[https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net...ision/latest?cb=20190112222201&path-prefix=en
https://treksphere.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Image-Akira-Class-Voyager.jpg
the above is "realistic". Not what the Picard scene gave us.
https://i0.wp.com/movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/generations/ch16/gen1100.jpg
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/FaintWellmadeCormorant-poster.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/5471/10482348613_f27565ba17_b.jpg
[https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net...ision/latest?cb=20190112222201&path-prefix=en
https://treksphere.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Image-Akira-Class-Voyager.jpg
the above is "realistic". Not what the Picard scene gave us.
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Both are realistic in the context of their stories. It's not either/or situation.
Well when you say that Starfleet having 200 ships of the same class is realistic, then delusional is the only thing you can be. I'm not sure if anyone's told you this, but real life planes, cars, boats, ships... don't just come in 1 shape and size.
Sorry but it's not. And accusations of diminished mental capacity is a sign for me to move on.
What would have been more accurate would be to say that the fleet shot in the finale was completely unreliastic, and was only done that way to save money and time and was a symptom of Chabon's (selfish) disinterest of ship porn.
I think you are right about saving time and money. I do not agree that it was unrealistic give that the Federation had suffered numerous losses to their fleet in the time leading up to Picard, including the Dominion War, and the attack at Utopia Planitia. In light of that fact I think Starfleet build a fast attack frame designed to be able to rapidly respond to any situation, rather than worrying about more specialized frames in this specific instance.
It isn't selfish.
So first off, Eaves's ships are properly designed. I really enjoy them aesthetically.
Now, I would have preferred that he employ a more retro-futurist design aesthetic if DIS were to be set in the TOS era. But 1) that is a subjective preference that does not actually impact the quality of the show, and 2) that is actually not fully Eaves's choice.
See, thing is, it's the producers of DIS who decided they wanted Eaves's basic design aesthetic of straight lines, harsh angles, line intersections, darker hull livery, etc. Eaves is a TOS fan from way back; he knows his shit. I'm 100% sure that if it were up to his tastes alone, he'd probably design something more Matt Jeffries-looking. But it's not -- he's hired to deliver the particular aesthetic the producers want.
So, it's really not fair or appropriate to say things like, "Eaves's ships aren't properly designed." They are properly designed. They're just not a design aesthetic you subjectively prefer.
No. The design that became the Nova class first appeared in The Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Technical Manual as a fictitious "first draft" of the Defiant-class design. Sternbach created it, and then he adapted it for use on VOY in "Equinox, Parts I & II." Presumably he was using those harsher lines and cutaways as a way to suggest an evolution into the Defiant-class design James Martin created.
For Starfleet ships? Well, obviously your mileage may vary, but I don't tend to think it's a fair comparison, since PIC is not about Starfleet and only introduced a new class briefly in the season finale, and since we're comparing a show that lasted seven seasons to a show that's only had one season so far.
I do think it's fair to say that TNG starship porn was stronger than PIC though. For Starfleet, TNG introduced, that I can recall, five Federation starship classes: the Constellation, the Galaxy, the Ambassador, the Nebula, and the Olympic. Of those, the Olympic appeared once and the Constellation twice. The Galaxy and the Nebula, who are basically a TNG version of the Constitution/Miranda dynamic, are the only ones to be used extensively. The Ambassador appeared once or twice more in TNG, and then only appeared in DS9 during the Wolf 359 flashback in "Emissary, Part I;" it was never seen during the Dominion War.
(And no, I do not count barely-visible, three-quarters-destroyed kitbashes like the New Orleans class, nor do I count obvious modifications of a prior design like the Soyuz class from "Cause and Effect.")
Of these four, the Galaxy and the Constellation were the only ones to appear in the first season. The Ambassador came in S3, Nebula did not appear until S4, and the Olympic only appeared in the series finale.
So, by this point in TNG's run, we'd had the Galaxy and Constellation -- that's two against the single Starfleet design we've seen, the Inquiry. I think the Inquiry is a solid design that's on par with the Constellation. TNG wins by default, but the Galaxy class is a classic design that's hard to compete with.
If we expand the field to include alien starships, TNG's starship game gets pretty phenomenal. The Ferengi D'Kora class (which was criminally underused), the Romulan D'deridex class, the Klingon Vor'Cha and Negh'Var classes, the Cardassian Galor class, and the Borg Cube are just classic designs that would be hard for any show to compete with. Especially one that is a more narrowly-focused character study instead of a broader-scoped military space opera.
Having said that -- we should bear in mind that most of the time, when we saw another starship on TNG, it was a reuse of the Excelsior or Miranda, and that does cost TNG some major points in terms of starship creativity.
La Sirena is growing on me; I wasn't into it at first. I happen to like the Inquiry class, but I think they look too small. I liked the Romulan ships that surrounded the Artifact and that were part of Oh's fleet; they fit in nicely with the design lineage of smaller Romulan ships that we've seen in previous TNG-era shows -- you can see a direct lineage from Sternbach's scout ship for "The Dector" to Doug Drexler's shuttle design for "In the Pale Moonlight," and they also seem to draw from the Valdore design Eaves created for NEM.
Anyway, yeah, I'd say TNG broadly did starship porn better than PIC (but PIC also isn't interested in starship porn, so it's not really a fair comparison).
I flat-out reject the assertion that TNG did better starship porn than DIS. Setting aside my subjective preference that TOS-era ships have a retro-futurist aesthetic, those ships are gorgeous. Eaves clearly made an effort to give them unique profiles that stand out from a distance; they have a sense of weight and size, and they all look like they have distinct mission profiles. DIS does damn good starship porn.
Eaves does all these things. He just doesn't do the versions of them you want to see. Hell, he doesn't do the versions I want to see, but there's a difference between subjective preference and claiming he doesn't do quality work.
I think a lot of scenarios are plausible here, up to and including, "Starfleet has lost so many ships between the Dominion and the Mars Attack that they've been mass producing nearly identical ship types for a while."
That is what I and plenty of others have said! I wish there had been more ship types. It would have been really nice to see a Sovereign or a Galaxy or a Defiant or whatever mixed in with the Inquirys.
What I (and, I suspect, others) are reacting to, when we seek to defend PIC against the people attacking it for the use of a single ship class in that scene, is the completely disproportionate reaction of some fans to that frankly small disappointment. The vitriol over it is just bizarre.
Very true. I do wish that Eaves had a more TOS-esque aesthetic in DIS, but I cannot complain about the quality.
Indeed, not a fair comparison, and certainly not fair to insert a scene of ships and call it proper, without recognizing context.
That's my point, yes. An entirely plausible scenario.
The vitriol against PIC and DSC continues to amaze me, but this one takes the cake. Pulling apart so short a scene just blows my mind.
