DC Movies - To Infinity and Beyond
- Thread starter dahj
- Start date
Amy Adams was excellent as Lois... strong go getting journalist but still have the compassion that Clark ought to fall in love with
Man of Steel had a lot of good stuff that was overshadowed by the bad
And the bad wasn't actually bad IMO... it just felt wrong for Superman.
And maybe that depends on how much you read/cared for Superman comics.
I never did, either of those. And I felt Man Of Steel was a fantastic movie.
I read tons of Superman comics, love the 78 Reeve movie and...Man of Steel is my favourite onscreen Superman story by a country mile. It’s almost as if there’s more than one way to do a Superman story. Hmmm.
A fair point. Objectively, it's not a bad movie, and certainly not a poorly-made one. In fact, I've said before it's a pretty good grand-scale first contact sci-fi disaster epic. But tonally, and in a lot of its specific character and story choices, it feels very wrong for a "Superman" movie, to many* of us who do know and care about the character.
* (not Ovation, obviously)
Not sure if sarcasm?I know, right? I was just as shocked as you were...
But if not, I don't think even Ovation would hold up the "Injustice" Superman as an acceptable mainstream continuity version (though Zack Snyder might).
Part sarcasm.
Mostly that there is a huge variety of ways to tell a Superman story and I don't care if it is mainstream continuity or not. Just tell the story.
I read the entire Injustice run. I found it intriguing as an idea. It illustrates what many versions of Batman and Lex Luthor fear/believe Superman can/will become and what could happen if they were correct. I would not want that version of Superman to become the default one in a "main continuity" though I would not be opposed to exploring the concept cinematically (if Snyder's original plans had not been derailed, some version of it would have been briefly explored in any case--could have been very interesting, could have been a dud; I'm annoyed I won't get to find out, but that's for another debate).
My overall point was that it is entirely possible to enjoy both the typical version of Superman AND a different approach without causing reality to collapse or end.
(I would argue Man of Steel's Superman is not nearly as "different" as so many argue him to be, but I've done that numerous times elsewhere and have no energy to rehash the argument.).Lastly, I do NOT believe there is a "wrong" way to approach the character of Superman (or any character, really). Some will be more popular than others (that's inevitable) but none is inherently wrong. When BSG was reimagined, I saw no particular "need" to make Starbuck a woman. I also saw nothing wrong with it. The new creative group wanted to try something different (as they should). The audience did not owe them support, nor did the creative group owe the audience satisfaction. Same thing with Superman. But in each case, I applaud the creative groups for attempting something different.
This brings up my main problem with Man of Steel, for me it's the kind of story that should be presented as an Elseworld's type story, not as the main version of the character for your big ongoing shared universe. I enjoyed it, and I don't think there's anything wrong with doing a different take on Superman, I just don't think it should be the default version.
As a Superman fan familiar with the comics version from all eras, I really thought Man of Steel was a great version to a point. I didn't like that Superman didn't try to save anyone in the buildings, and only seemed to remember people at that very end just before he killed Zod--but I could forgive that in the context of the story.
The interpretation of Jonathan Kent was messed up.
Also the battle scene at the end was just a little too triggering for me and I did almost have to leave the theatre when it went on for so long.
The interpretation of Jonathan Kent was messed up.
Also the battle scene at the end was just a little too triggering for me and I did almost have to leave the theatre when it went on for so long.
Yes, it was the same for me. Triggering is exactly the word. Watching the towers fall on 9/11 was very traumatic for many people, and it was in shockingly poor taste to exploit that horrific imagery so crassly and superficially, and to keep it up so endlessly so that it just got harder and harder to bear. I have never before felt assaulted by a movie. And it was all so totally pointless. It contributed exactly nothing to the story, since it had no consequences. You could cut out nearly the entire city-destruction sequence (except for the bits with the Planet staffers) and not lose a single line of dialogue or a single plot point.
I actually quite liked Man of Steel in its first two acts. It had problems, but much of it was brilliant. (As dreadful as its take on Jonathan was, I kind of liked the Elseworlds quality of a story where Clark became Superman despite Jonathan rather than because of him.) But that third act was so utterly wrong that it ruined the entire movie for me.
Very similar to feelings on Man of Steel. The endless city destruction feels like the type of footage you see in the first raw assembly of all footage. That the director and editor than quickly examine and start cutting out unneeded moments to get to point of the story.
Anyone who watches bonus features knows what I mean. Often deleted scenes, particularly action scenes seem redundant. Because in writing and filming they go over board to give themselves many options. But in editing they pull back and get a better focus. Better storytellers at least...
I also liked the early parts of the movie.
Anyone who watches bonus features knows what I mean. Often deleted scenes, particularly action scenes seem redundant. Because in writing and filming they go over board to give themselves many options. But in editing they pull back and get a better focus. Better storytellers at least...
I also liked the early parts of the movie.
Akiva Goldsman has talked about an earlier, unproduced Batman and Superman movie that he worked on back in the early 200s. It was supposed to be directed by Wolfgang Peterson and would have starred Colin Farrell as Batman and Jude Law as Superman.
He says it would have been "the darkest thing you ever saw", and that in it Batman would have fallen in love and gotten married and given up being Batman. The Joker would have then shown up and killed his wife, and it eventually was going to turn out that the whole realtionship and everything had been set up by the Joker.
There's nothing in the article about what Superman's role in all of this would have been.
He says it would have been "the darkest thing you ever saw", and that in it Batman would have fallen in love and gotten married and given up being Batman. The Joker would have then shown up and killed his wife, and it eventually was going to turn out that the whole realtionship and everything had been set up by the Joker.
There's nothing in the article about what Superman's role in all of this would have been.
I think I read that script once.
Yeah, fuck that noise.
Why does it seem like everyone incapable of making a Batman film that isn't the darkest damn thing ever? Does everyone think the only options are Adam West's batman or Frank Miller's Batman (to be clear I do like the Adam West and Silver-Age style Batman, but he is his own thing, and not what I'd call the "regular" Batman)? There is a range in between those two extremes, and that's generally where you'll find the best Batman stuff. Batman The Animated Series did a great job of having goofy stuff that still felt right for the universe and the character while still having serious and emotional moments.
Also, having the writer of Batman & robin say that makes me feel like what he wrote would be even worse then the premise makes it sound
Also, having the writer of Batman & robin say that makes me feel like what he wrote would be even worse then the premise makes it sound
Yeah, I think is one of the few times I actually more or less agree with you @kirk55555, the big obsession with making Batman stories darker and grittier is getting a bit annoying. I love the Nolan trilogy, but I think after them they really should have gone less dark and gritty with the next Batman movies, but they just seem to be going farther and farther in that direction.